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Original poster

I am so desperately worried about my friend

26 replies

SnowOfHands · 19/12/2008 13:33

Her xdp is contesting residency of their children- 8yrs and 5yrs.

They are in the family court today.

She has no money at all, a lot of this due to xdp so is representing herself. Xdp's relatives have funded a solicitor for him.

She has just phoned and is absolutely in tears. She is convinced they are going to take her children away from her.

I don't know what to say to her.

OP posts:
misi · 19/12/2008 14:27

it is doubtful a court would do that. has she got a mackenzie freind to help her?

Original poster
SnowOfHands · 19/12/2008 14:39

She hasn't. I went along to all the preliminary hearings/meetings with CAFCASS officers etc but was made to sit outside. The clerk said that as long as her xdh disputed me being there then I wasn't allowed in- I still think this was wrong. He was and is very good at isolating her and removing any support she has. He is a manipulative and conniving man who is stopping at nothing to win this.

Sh is in pieces, on her own and knows that she's not making a good case for herself. She is terrified.

She has no family (fostered at a young age) and no support at all. I can't be there today (even outside waiting for her) and feel awful.

OP posts:
DoubleBluff · 19/12/2008 14:42

Poor thisng.
You cant do anything more than be there fo her
her.
I would hope the judge can see that there is more to looking affter children than how much money you have.
If fhe had no money couldn't she have got legal aid?

WingsofaChristmasTreefairy · 19/12/2008 14:42

Is she entitled to legal aid ?

What about CAB.

Original poster
SnowOfHands · 19/12/2008 14:54

She's not entitled to legal aid and it's all happening right now so no action to take.

He's using everything he can- vast support network and family. She can't drive (epileptic) and he's using the lack of transport and medical problems. That's just the tip of the iceberg. He has photographed and measured every bruise his children have ever had and shouts abuse to anybody who will listen (utter unfounded nonsense that has been investigated and quashed but doesn't stop him repeating the accusations at length). He assaulted her whilst pg and she had a domestic violence wpc supporting her but it transpired that they went to the same school (couple of years apart- neither of them knew) so he claimed bias in the investigation and it wasn't admissable).

It's all so thorny and unfair.

OP posts:
misi · 19/12/2008 15:45

snow, complete crap. under guidelines from sir mark potter himself, mack friends are now allowed and unless his side can show extreme reason why not, you are allowed in for support!!!
where abouts are you/she?

misi · 19/12/2008 15:48

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed1568

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed1162

misi · 19/12/2008 15:50

References:
Collier v Hicks [1831] 2B & Ad.663
McKenzie v McKenzie [1971] P 33
Re H (Chambers Proceedings: McKenzie Friend) [1997] 2 FLR 423
R v Bow County Court ex parte Pelling [1999] 2 FLR 1126
Re H (McKenzie Friend: Pre trial determination) [2002] 1 FLR 39
Lord Tenterden CJ (in Collier v Hicks):
"Any person, whether he be a professional man or not, may attend as a friend of either party, may take notes, may quietly make suggestions, and give advice."

misi · 19/12/2008 15:55

I would go as far to say, that with the right guidance from a good MK, she could be able to delay hearings on appeal due to be refused support, and to have previous hearings/orders re looked at. My ex at the moment is legally assisted and her solicitor is a right arse, I myself have an MK and am doing quite ok, and my ex's effort to stop me seeing my son and removing our shared res order isnot going too well for her, our cafcass officer has just about said she thinks my son should be with me and that was all with the help of an excellent MK. let us know where she is and see whether there is an MK out there that can help. also, what court and when next in court?

Original poster
SnowOfHands · 19/12/2008 15:57

misi, thank you for that. I just wish to God I'd known at the time. We did try to insist but the clerk told us it 'simply was not true'. Foolishly, we let it go and she's been doing it on her own. Why the hell didn't I force the issue back then. I could be holding her hand through this.

I'm in Norfolk. Just waiting for her call. Don't know how long it'll take.

OP posts:
misi · 19/12/2008 16:04

never listen to clerks!!
but you were not to know. my exs solicitor keeps coming up to me when in the ante room at court trying it on with legal terms etc and at our final directions the other week, try to con me and bully me into agreeing a draught court order by suggesting the judge had already approved it!! when its over, I will be making a complaint to the law society after the court clerk overheard him and told me it was wrong and unproffessional (I already knew but hey, nice to have a decent clerk for once!!)
also, if she knows the name of the judge, that would be handy!!

Isaw3SMALLSHIPSgosailingby · 19/12/2008 16:11

Have no advice, but hope everything goes ok for your friend.

What a horrible situation. Good luck.

Original poster
SnowOfHands · 19/12/2008 16:14

It's all so fraught and nasty isn't it?

Last time I was there I saw so many sobbing Mums and Dads, most presumably just wanting the best for their children and struggling through a difficult process. It would have helped enormously to have had a well informed clerk especially considering she took it upon herself to make statements about legal rights.

I think I might lodge a complaint about not being allowed in. And on the xdp's say so too. It made a vulnerable woman even more frightened of a process she's struggling to understand and follow in the first place.

OP posts:
SilverSparkle · 19/12/2008 16:19

Have u heard anything yet???

Original poster
SnowOfHands · 19/12/2008 16:20

No news. If it's going on this long I suspect it might run to days instead of hours. Weekend now as well. I'm going to spend the weekend with her regardless.

OP posts:
SilverSparkle · 19/12/2008 16:24

Why the hell would he put her through this if shes a good mother? I take it its some sort of power thing?

misi · 19/12/2008 16:25

snow, sorry, I missed the part where you said she was in court today.
is it a final hearing or a directions?

crazyloon1 · 19/12/2008 16:29

He sounds like a bully and a fraek tbh. Photographing bruises?

I am so sorry for your friend but I hope the courts see through his sh*t. I don't see anything so far that is grounds to take her kids away.

misi · 19/12/2008 16:30

silver, parents, both mums and dads do this sort of thing for many reasons. sometimes it is a power thing, other times it is because they are jealous of the other parent, and sometimes it is about money and yet still more times, just because they can. whatever the reason though, everytime it is the child/ren that suffer from the confrontation and acrimony these court appearances encourage and create and one parent always looses but in all times, the child ultimately looses. I always hope that truth and right will prevail though, but then I do live in a real world and not my fantasy world I dream of

SilverSparkle · 19/12/2008 16:31

Does it matter what the children want in this case?

misi · 19/12/2008 16:34

snow, I have to go out for a while, my nephews are here and they want to go shopping!!
let us know what happens as soon as you know, and if anything untoward has been ordered, she has 21 days to lodge an appeal, if thats the case, see if we can get her a decent MK quick and get that appeal in to overturn any bullied order, so the quicker the better.

misi · 19/12/2008 16:35

only if they are around 12 or older, as younger than this, the court will not regard them as gillick competant and will therefore not listen to them unless exceptional circs

SilverSparkle · 19/12/2008 16:38

I'm sorry your friend is going through this. I have 2 little ones and the thought of ever losing them is more frightening than anything else. I hope she gets the result she wants.

Original poster
SnowOfHands · 19/12/2008 16:44

Final hearing today.

The children have not been asked which I think is for the best. It's not fair or right to put them in that position. They have been largely shielded from the situation.

If it doesn't go her away you can bet your bottom dollar (tra la la) that an appeal will be lodged and I will be selling my soul to anybody who can take on a pro bono case or at least help/offer advice.

Why is he doing it? Oh good heavens, who knows? He was an emotionally abusive and adulterous partner. AFAIK, power plays a part in all of his relationships, he is an authoritarian parent and was very keen to keep my friend isolated and dependent while the relationship continued. His contact with the children has been fraught, his maintenance payments often not appearing (dreadfully in arrears at this point). He is a bully, but the worst kind as he is very convincing. I don't think he wants residency. I think he doesn't want her to have it. He loves his children. Of course he does and perhaps he has genuine concerns. I don't want to do him a disservice as, of course, I have nothing to do with this man anymore (we were friends for many years, I met my friend through his relationship with her). It's not right though. She is a good mother. She is struggling with the stress of all this and he, obviously, uses her frailty atm to his own advantage.

OP posts:
Original poster
SnowOfHands · 19/12/2008 19:36

They've granted him residency. She has them every other weekend.

I can't find the words. Friend can't talk atm, has turned off her phone. She is unable to speak through the wracking sobs.

Merry bloody Christmas.

The older child may cope with this change but the youngest is going to be inconsolable. He adores his mother, adores her.

They will appeal but what are the sodding chances?

My poor friend.

OP posts:
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