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Original poster

Council tax, over 18's, loads of questions......sorry, very confused!

24 replies

blossomsmine · 26/11/2008 22:53

Trying to help my sister, she is a single parent to three children, two of which are over 18. She gets a reduced bill because of being the only adult in the house....until today Apparantley she got a letter asking her to pay nearly £700.....I think she has got herself in abit of a mess and i said i would help but know NOTHING about council tax rules and regulations!!! I think the bill is because of her two teenage children, one is 19 and one 18, the 18year old left school this summer so i suppose he is now classed as an adult and the bill will mean another adult in the house??? Is that right? He is not working he is deciding whether to go to college or not. The other one is 19 and spent last year working out what to do and is now enrolled at uni on a student nurse course, are there no discounts for students then?? I haven;t seen the bill but because it is £700 i am wondering if they are charging for the two of them from the age of 18 till now??
Sorry to ramble on and sorry if this post is confusing, i am confused but i really need to help her as this has put her into abit of a depression she seems to have nothing but bad luck right now
Any help or information would be really gratefully received.

OP posts:

Tortington · 26/11/2008 23:02

its not per person, its per household.

the household get a reduction if one adult

there is clearly more than one adult.

Original poster

blossomsmine · 26/11/2008 23:05

Oh right, just thought there might be discounts for students. Also, i was sure i read somewhere that under 20 year olds got a discount Hope i haven't given her false hope by mentioning these things. Thanks.

OP posts:

Tortington · 26/11/2008 23:10

show her this

Tortington · 26/11/2008 23:10

Working out who is ?counted? for Council Tax purposes
A full Council Tax bill is based on two adults living in a household - if there?s fewer than two, the household can get a discount.

For Council Tax purposes, certain types of people aren?t ?counted? towards the number of adults in a household - the bill is worked out as if they weren?t living there. This includes individuals who are:

considered a full-time student for Council Tax purposes (see the section above on ?Working out if you?re a full-time student for Council Tax purposes?)
doing a course which leads to a first registration as a nurse or midwife
doing an Apprenticeship which leads to a qualification recognised by the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority - provided they don?t earn over a certain amount (currently £195 per week)
under 25 and in a recognised form of full-time training funded by the Learning and Skills Council

Original poster

blossomsmine · 26/11/2008 23:24

Thank you for the link. Will get her round to have a look. So it looks like the one that is a student isn't counted towards the adults in the household. But the other one will be as from when he left education this year..... How on earth do they make that a £700 bill then???? Think they might have made a mistake!

OP posts:

scaryteacher · 26/11/2008 23:39

It could well be a £700 bill as the council have now become aware that there were two adults in the property from last year, and therefore your sister has to pay back the 25% discount she received in error last year, and also for this year. The year doesn't end for CTAX purposes until 31st March, so she will be charged at full whack up tot hat date, and then it will all start again from 01 April.

She needs to check the dates on the bill are correct (i.e.that date her eldest left full time education), and then contact the council to make an arrangement to clear the debt. She can either ask for her instalments to be extended until March, and clear the arrears by then; or, pay as much as she can by March, and then arrange for the remainder of the outstanding amount to be rolled up with her 09/10 CTAX bill and divided into 12 instalments, so that all the debt is gone by March 2010.

Original poster

blossomsmine · 26/11/2008 23:47

She didn't purposely keep it from them, she just presumed as one was going to uni and one was still at school until this summer (i wonder when they class that they have left school??) that they wouldn't be counted.
I have looked at the link and found student nurses are exempt and somewhere it also said under 20's, although i can't see how that can be right!!
Thanks for the advice about paying whatever needs paying, she has no 'spare' money so will need to make extra payments hopefully in instalments.

OP posts:

BoccaDellaVerita · 26/11/2008 23:57

She could also get advice from the CAB. Has she checked whether she is eligible for council tax benefit?

Original poster

blossomsmine · 27/11/2008 00:05

Bocca, i wish she would try to claim council tax benefit. She works part time and receives working tax credit but won't try to claim council tax benefit. She had a bad split from and ex partner and is so determined to pay her way, as much as she can without claiming. I keep trying to tell her that the benefits are there to help people like her.....

OP posts:

BoccaDellaVerita · 27/11/2008 00:12

Well, I can understand that she wants to pay her way, but if she doesn't claim benefits to which she's entitled (and I don't know whether or not she is) then she is paying more than her way.

There is a brief guide to CT discounts in this booklet on the DCLG website. But if your sister is faced with a bill she'll find hard to pay, it really would be good to go and get advice!

Original poster

blossomsmine · 27/11/2008 08:57

Thanks Bocca.. going to get her round later on today, will show her the info that is on this thread.

OP posts:

scaryteacher · 27/11/2008 14:39

It doesn't matter when the youngest left school, but when the over 18 left FTE, as there are then two adults in the house. CTAX is based on 50% property element and 50% personal element based on two adults in the property, hence the 25% single occupancy discount your sis had until her eldest was not in FTE.

If the 19 year old wasn't in education for a while, then makes two adults in the property. Now the 19 yo is at uni the situation is still the same as the 18 yo isn't in education. Once the 18 yo is in full time education, then your sis can apply for a 25% discount, as she will be the only counted adult, as the 18 and 19 yo are disregarded if full time students. However if the 18 yo doesn't study but goes out to work, then it's two adults, and the 18 yo should contribute to the bill.

Original poster

blossomsmine · 27/11/2008 21:00

How confusing! Just trying to take that last post in!! I got her round to read this earlier and she phoned the council tax people, they said to send proof of the two teenagers status when they were students, and the one that is still a student. They said there may have been a mix up and she may only owe from 1st Nov this year! So looking good for her at the moment

OP posts:

BoccaDellaVerita · 27/11/2008 21:45

I haven't quite got my head round the timeline either. Scaryteacher is right - it's all going to hinge on whether there has been any time when the teenagers haven't been in FTE and so have been counted for council tax. Perhaps your sister could write the timeline herself, so that she can refer to it when talking to the CT people?

Original poster

blossomsmine · 27/11/2008 23:22

There is a time when they weren't in education, from what i can work out the youngest one finished school after a levels in....would that be July??? So he has been out of FTE since then, but we have read up on this and i think he is exempt till 1st Nov of this year, so that means only a month or so to pay for....I think!!
Then the other one, i am not actually sure how long she was out of FTE as had a gap before Uni.....
Yes, need to get her to write all these dates out so that we can both get our heads round it to then talk to someone...
Thanks
You know, this site is just great isn't it, my sister was so impressed when i showed her all this info and advice. I just knew mn'ers would have something to offer on this

OP posts:

BoccaDellaVerita · 27/11/2008 23:46

Good luck with the calculations and negotiations!

Original poster

blossomsmine · 28/11/2008 22:36

Thanks, will let you know what happens in the end, i know i always want to know the outcome of threads i get involved in on mn

OP posts:

Fizzylemonade · 02/12/2008 18:56

Scaryteacher knows her stuff and always seems to beat me to this kind of stuff (we both worked in Council Tax although at different Councils, well I am assuming they were)

The uni/college issue a student exemption certificate for council tax with the course details on and the start date.

We would class them as non-students when the college declares the course as ended. We would have a list of dates from the uni and college with the details. We would also get a list of all those who dropped out.

The misconception comes in when people assume the "two adults in residence" means a father and mother but it does just mean 2 adults which can mean single Mum/Dad and their 18+ child.

scaryteacher · 03/12/2008 08:29

Plymouth City Council 1990-2000, Community Charge and then CTAX! I left in 2000 to do my PGCE and teach, as the thought of still doing CTAX at 55 left me cold!

Fizzylemonade · 03/12/2008 10:09

Scaryteacher, I was in uni when CC came in

I worked for Worcester City Council 1999 - 2004 we didn't do benefits that was different section, did ctax and business rates billing and recovery.

Moved to Yorkshire with Dh's job so gave up work all together to become sahm. Have toyed with teaching as it is what I went to uni to do but didn't do BEd did BA so didn't do PGCE at the end.

Was too young back then but maybe I could start with parent helper, then TA, who knows?

Ds2 is only 2 so I have some time to think.

scaryteacher · 03/12/2008 11:34

I'd just graduated and CC was my first job after my BA. I did CC and CTAX - not benefits, and NNDR was a different section as well.

I did my PGCE in 2000 (millenium project) when ds was 5 and not having studied (apart from my failed IRRV exams) for 10 years. It is doable, and no, you don't need to be a TA first, I wasn't.

Original poster

blossomsmine · 03/12/2008 23:12

My sister is having problems at the moment. Needs to send in a proof that the youngest one was at school until this summer, the school doesn't seem to be helping. Do you think a letter stating the EMA payment would be enough proof??

OP posts:

Fizzylemonade · 04/12/2008 07:39

EMA payments have come in after I did Ctax so I would think that that would prove he was in full time education if that is the criteria for the EMA.

The Council Tax department can ring the school to confirm that he was registered as attending. If you provide the phone number and details of the school so you have done a bit of leg work for them then I am sure they would.

Scaryteacher they would never have even funded us to sit the exam, we had 2 experts in it and that is all we needed! The TA thing was to ease me back into work. I have been sahm for 4 years and with another 2 to go before ds2 starts school.

I actually took a photo of dawn coming up as I crammed for my finals at uni and it was a "never again" reminder to myself.

Original poster

blossomsmine · 04/12/2008 09:55

Thanks fizzylemonade, sounds like it will be enough evidence then, will get her to send off the school contact details etc., aswell.

OP posts:

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