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Took ds to hosp for absess in Mch, now they blame me and want to force him to have psychiatric treatment

20 replies

Nighbynight · 24/10/2008 07:24

yet again I am asking advice

OK, last week I took ds to the hosp because his abses had come back. It is a perianal abs, and this is the 4th hosp visit to have it drained, it keeps coming back.
Last time was in Aug/Sept. At the end of the last visit, they recommended that he should see an immune deficiency specialist in a different dept of the hospital, and gave me a phone number.
During Sept and Oct, I was very busy, and also had good reason to believe that we would be moving into the city soon. (verbal promise of job in munich, that hasnt been followed up yet) Also, was planning a few weeks break between jobs, that hasn't happened.
At the moment, it is hard to get him to appointments in the city, and means that I lose a day's pay. So I waited on this and loads of other things, until I was sure about the job.
They also recommended a psych (more about that later)

Anyway, last week the abses swelled up again, so I took him back. Yesterday, the doctors called me into a room and said that they were going to keep ds in hosp for several weeks while they did further tests, because the abs keeps coming back, "because you haven't kept appointments with the paediatrician, so clearly ambulatory treatment is not working."
No appointments were made with any doctor, and I have not missed any appointments, so I said this.
They then backtracked and said they were not blaming me, but the blaming words had already been said.
They also started to say that he needs a social worker, and a psychiatrist.
The basis of the psych need seems to be (a) that he is not like german children and (b) that he has many fears.
ds is generally confident, but he is a very over the top child, so when he is happy, he is the loudest happiest child present, and when he is scared, he is the loudest, scaredest child in the building.
when he was little, ex h took him away from me for long periods, and this was very bad for both of us. eg ds has said that he remembers crying and not knowing where I was So he may have extra fears from this period.

however, I do not want him in the german hosp psych system. It is not a multi-cultural society here, and the onus is generally on foreigners to comply to german culture and behaviour. I do not want a psych trying to correct his behaviour to make him more german. ds is over the top enough that I am worried they might want to give him ritalin. It is too late once they are in the system, because they can force your child to go to a mental hospital/have drugs, or they can take your parental rights away in court if you try to refuse (true story).
Also, it was clear from what the doctors were saying (or NOT saying) that they think I am to blame for ds's fears. They know nothing about his history, and I don't want to go telling it to every tom, dick and harry who tells me that my son is "strange" (their words). Especially when they are prejudiced against me to start with. It is a humiliating story of bullying ex h and excessive violence, from which we have escaped. I don't like recounting this story all over the place, because it makes us look very un-german, and people are VERY judgemental here, always comparing you with the perfect gold standard of the 2 parent, 1/2 child family, dad works, mum stays at home. To put this into context, we are a single parent, immigrant family with 4 children, and a violent ex. Think Daily Mail readers and you have an idea what I am up against.

They have called a big meeting on Monday, to which I have been called, at which I gather everyone concerned with ds's treatment in the hosp will be present, "so that we can discuss his care"

how best to protect ourselves?
If I take a translator, I will have to pay them myself - I won't be able to follow all that they will say, esp as it will be medical terms.
Take our contact at the JA who knows our history? (but I dont totally trust him not to side with the hosp)
I want to stop this story that ds is strange, and that I have in some way made him strange and needing psych treament.
(None of his teachers in france or germany have evers suggested that he needed psych treatment, it comes only from the hosp)
should I complain in writing about the meeting yesterday and the allegations of blame?
am very upset, and all these things have been swimming round in my head.

OP posts:
lulumama · 24/10/2008 07:28

am very sorry to hear this, you must be very concerned.

but, on the flip side, sounds like you and your DS have been through a terrible time, and maybe a psych assesment for him would ultimately be a good thing? it is likely that the terrible things that happened have affected him, and he is a frightened little boy? and to help him with that would be beneficial?maybe if he abcess is recurring, he needs more intensive treatment?

look, i know nothing of the german system , but surely more intensive medical care would be benefit to him?

any chance of you coming back the UK at all if you are finding life where you are too difficult?

compo · 24/10/2008 07:30

agree with lulumama
I guess when you move abroad you have to trust the medical team in that country to a certain extent otherwise such moves just don't work
maybe post on the overseas board for some further insight into German practices?
do you have family over here or there?

Nighbynight · 24/10/2008 07:40

Perhaps I didnt make it clear, of course I want him to have the treatment for the absess. I would indeed be the bad parent they are implying if I didnt want that.

have to go to the hosp & work now.

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Milkmade · 24/10/2008 08:21

Do you have any good German friends who could come with you and help translate? Or better still mayber one of his teachers? (they would also be able to testify to his behaviour at school etc and may have some standing as professionals with the hospital?

Anna8888 · 24/10/2008 08:25

I think you would have a better time with docs in France or the UK... any chance of moving?

Marina · 24/10/2008 08:50

You've outlined it on this thread NN but yes, I would try and write down every word that was said to you when the doctors blamed you for the flare-up of his abscess yesterday.
You say that the schools in Germany have never raised any worries about his louder-than-the-Teutonic-norm conduct, so is there ANYONE from the school you can ask to come with you on Monday? Or hope that the JA man can help you?
This sounds an utter nightmare for you, I wish I had more concrete advice - other than echo Anna and hope you can move back to France sometime soon.
Can you not just demand a translator on Monday before allowing the meeting to go ahead?

lou031205 · 24/10/2008 08:59

I feel for you. However, I can see that their concerns have been exacerbated by the fact that you didn't take their advice re: the specialist. I personally don't think being busy and believing that you would move to the city is an excuse to delay referral to a specialist for your child. They take priority.

Perhaps you need to find a way of assuring the team that you have your DS best interests at heart, by co-operating fully and explaining your reasons. Definitely with an interpreter.

berolina · 24/10/2008 09:03

oh gosh NN. One thing after another for you, isn't it? If it weren't for dc/work I'd come down and go in with you. Have thought if I could arrange something but sadly the notice is too short It is very short for you too, to arrange an advocate to be with you. Not quite right IMO.

I think there is an organisation called the Bund Psychiatrieerfahrener - they might be able to help?

I don't actually think they can give him drugs without your consent - unless he is made a ward of court and that can only happen with due process.

Could you agree to send him to a niedergelassener Kinderpsychotherapeutin? That might show you are behandlungswillig but keep him from the hosp system. Maybe research one, make a few phone calls today, get an appt for initial assessment.

Have you got anything in writing from the psych that I and more importantly dh could have a look at?

At the meeting, insist they take their time, repeat key terms for you to write them down - make plenty of notes, dh and I will go over them with you. you could even risk taking a translator and sending them the bill?

Thinking of you. Don't hesitate to email/phone.

Marina · 24/10/2008 09:04

Hurrah for Bero XXX

cupchar · 24/10/2008 09:05

From what you're written ...

You want to clear up the allegation that you have not kept appointments - get this in writing.

Are they keeping him in hospital as they think you wont keep appintments? If this is the case make the appointments & then take him home.

For the psych assessment - are you obliged to do this? If you are get representation for yourself in the meeting (someone who knows the legal aspects)

edam · 24/10/2008 09:14

I'd get legal advice, sharpish. From a lawyer who speaks good English and German and has experience of dealing with hospitals.

lou031205 · 24/10/2008 09:18

I do think that from what you have written, this all hinges on the fact that you haven't yet taken their advice re:treatment, and that they are just want to ensure that your son gets the care he needs.

skyatnight · 24/10/2008 09:21

It sounds as it you are going to have to be very assertive (in a non-agressive way) in order to get them to listen to you. I think this because it sounds as if they think you are holding back, not being open enough with them. It is a terrible dilemma because you are frightened that, if you do tell them the whole story, it might make things worse, but, if they think you are not cooperating, they might leave you out of the decision process where ds is concerned, or worse.

In your place, I would try to make them take the time to understand the whole background to this and that you are not a neglectful, difficult parent but someone who is appropriately concerned about your little boy but who is at a disadvantage being an immigrant in terms of understanding the system and representing yourself and your son in the process. That you are frightened. Also explain the thing about maybe moving cities and hence putting things on hold. If you don't communicate sufficiently, they get suspicious. They are mistaken and need to understand that.

If you are not totally confident about your German (and of course you can't be expected to understand all their technical terms and subject compound words) then it might be worth paying a translator to come with you. Best wishes.

skyatnight · 24/10/2008 09:25

Hmn, a lawyer to act as an advocate for you might be helpful if you can't convince them that you are sincere (which you are).

Nighbynight · 24/10/2008 21:43

just back from work/hosp. thank you for helpful comments.

bero, I will certainly take lots of notes. As far as I know, the psych hasnt seen him. I am always at home at such anti-social times, which makes phoning hard! I will try to call you over the w/e, but must spend a lot of time in the hosp. I was told off by the nurses last weekend for arriving too late and not spending the whole day there.
The psychs tell you that if you dont allow whatever they want to do, they will make your child a ward of court, thats how it works.
Today I went to the hosp and made a complaint about what the doctor had said (there was more nasty stuff about me, that I forgot to add this morning). I was very nice and softly spoken, and stressed all the right points, did not lose my head....I was offered psych help to help me get over being upset about the allegations
they are all bonkers about psych help imo.

lou, to put this into context, the hosp have been treating my son for a year, without any visible improvement, and without finding the cause of his ailment. I am not even going to start on what hell the last 2 months have been.

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Nighbynight · 24/10/2008 21:44

dd has just said "do you want me to sleep in the car, mummy?"

pause

"I think that was a yes"

better go now.

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berolina · 26/10/2008 22:07

NN, thinking of you. Strength and unflappable calm for tomorrow. x

(am at work all day, strictly no personal internetting, so can't check in, but will be there in the evening)

Nighbynight · 26/10/2008 23:48

bero, thank you. just finished a written complaint to the hosp in german.

Have clarified a few more things - apparently, they should have told me to make an appointment with a Kinderarzt after ds left hospital, but they didnt - they just assumed that I would! (how typical!!!)
this was apparently key to the whole process of going forward with ds's treatment. I had no idea.

I am going to put the written complaint in before the blame-frau-nightynight meeting. Am not sure if they will react with apologies or aggression.

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ZZZen · 27/10/2008 17:27

Just seen this. Boy oh boy. I'm SSSandy in new skin these days. How did it go?

Something does seem to be telling you that Munich is not the place for you, doesn't it?! Although Germany has a lot going for it, I think you need a state with a less heavy-handed feel generally; otherwise it seems you and your family will never find peace.

I would be EXTREMELY wary of giving over control to the hospital I'm afraid. I have only ever made very positive experiences with medical treatment of my dd in Germany -but this kind of problem didn't crop up for us. I trust the doctors I have had to deal with; however I understand the fears you have that in this case things might be taken out of your hands. I would feel exactly the same.

Not much help I know. Do these doctors not speak enough English or French to communicate with you in one of those languages? The doctors I have met here would be able and generally willign to do that if necessary.

Can you arrange (can the hospital help with organising/paying) a babysitter who brings your ds to these hospital appointments and treatments since you do have to be at work as sole income earner? You have an aupair, don't you? COuldn't she do this?

Nighbynight · 30/10/2008 07:40

zzen, thank you, have emailed you.

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