accounting question - annual accounts issue

[bumpybecky]

I've just taken over as treasurer of preschool and need to get my head round the accounts. Just preparing the balance sheet for the AGM and have a question...

If a payment is made in respect of last years accounts, but the money leaves the bank account during this trading year, which year's accounts should it go in?

part of me thinks this year, as that's when it left the account, but it should be counted in last years profit and loss cos that's when it should have been paid [baffled smilie]

it's two PAYE tax payments in respect of wages paid in the last trading year (money only sent to HMRC this trading year)

thanks for your help

i think it goes against last years as thats the period it was relating to. If the accounts show it as being paid last tax year then it should link to that.

I dont think it matters so much when it came out of the account its more to do with when it was shown as a payment on the company financials.

I only learnt accounts this year so could be totally wrong, but to me it just sounds logical.

Jura, how would I tell which basis they were worked out on?

bearing in mind I've not actually got any annual accounts from previous years to look at (don't ask! )

jura - why does it have no impact on balance sheet ? if it has been accrued it will on balance sheet as a creditor ?

If there is a balance sheet, I think we can safely assume that we can put accruals on it .

BB, the payment should be counted in last year's profit and loss, and be included as an accrual in the balance sheet.

No, I think the OP is talking about last years balance sheet, to go with last years accounts which she is preparing now for the AGM.

sorry - you're all talking dead techinical accounting terms now. You're going to have to talk down to me. I can count and all, but never done accounts before!

I've got an accounts record book from last year, some petty cash sheets, a pile of receipts, chequebooks, receipt book, paying in book and that's about it! The accounts record didn't have all of the outgoings from last year on it (rent for last 4 months missed off....) and certianly no mention of the PAYE payments. It's only when I checked the bank statements that I realised.

I've not got anything from previous years, no reports that were presented to the AGM (not entirely sure any were presented, I was there and certainly didn't get a copy), no balance sheets etc. I know the previous treasurer has the paperwork for the year 2006-7 as I've asked her if she can get it ready to be audited as we're a bit late for the Charities Commission update thing.

So as I've not got anything from previous years, I really don't know what basis they were worked out on. In fact I'm not sure they have been worked out IYSWIM.

What I do know is that the AGM is on Monday and I need something to show people (profit and loss? sumary? no idea what the technical term is!). I guess I need to add it into last years figures for the report bit (doesn't seem 'fair' that last year's spending gets counted for this year). Also I'd like to draw a bit of a line under last year's (huge) losses and start couting again from September. If I add in the £500+ paye payment we start off badly!

Does that make sense? hope so!

I've not even got an accounts record book for the year 2007-8 yet either, so no use seeing how it's written down there!

Just to top it all - while I was typing the message above ds (9mo) has eaten a hole in the balance sheet I'd prepared Argh!

If you are a charity go the charity commission website type in the charity number and it will show you the accounts submitted last

here

www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ShowCharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCha rityNumber=803156&SubsidiaryNumber=0

just change it to your charity number on the left I should think

oooh thanks for that

it says accounts for the year ending 31 Aug 2007 are currently 101 days overdue, the ones for the year ending 31 Aug 2006 118 days late

does it have the years before that though?

It took me ages to get my head around the fact we aren't doing accruals accounting yet but I'm thinking of moving over to it for next year end because we are only about 20k off having to.

yes, financial summaries going back 4 years are there

have just found a help page there explaining what I need to put into the report - it's lookig quite helpful

thanks for link

YOu can submit some of it online, you need to register on line with the to do it. Apparantly doing it by paper takes ages for them to send it out?

Have you found a way to make it cost affective to continue running?

I've got a huge list of suggestions and have done lots of number crunching, but not actually got very far yet!

The AGM is on Monday. At the moment we've not got enough committee members (one short). Lots of (very good) excuses from parents as to why they can't do it.

It seems to be a very steep learning curve for me though! just as soon as I think I have all the information I need to work out the forward planning someone goes and says something which makes me realise there's something else I need to know. It's taking a while to get hold of the info from the staff.

I know we're OK till Christmas I think we'll be OK till Easter, after that I'm not sure...

I have also come to the conclusion that this committee thing is far too big a thing to expect parents to take on, especially on a year by year basis. A lot of the issues I'm coming up against have occurred as previous committee members didn't really appreciate the implications of their decisions at the time. They're now long gone and yet we're left trying to sort out the mess

Without the committee you cannot continue though. Do the other parents realise that you will have to close if you do not have enough committee members?

well it says so in big bold letters on the poster and in the letter I sent out.....

we're only a small preschool, at the moment 14 families. Two children will leave at Christmas, 4 already on committee, one about to have a baby any minute, so not many potential volunteers

I did read online earlier that as of this summer the PLA have changed their constitution to allow staff members to sit on the committee (not as chair or treasurer, not to vote on issues involving pay and some other conditions too). I've emailed our local PLA person to confirm (or not). I think having a staff member there would be a good plan, at least to help with continuity from one year's committee to the next.

will have to see what happens on Monday

thanks for the warning

There is money in the bank account (got statements for that!). I know the PAYE is up to date to the beginning of term (have checked with HMRC).

I know it sounds terrible, it's probably not as bad as I'm making out. There are certainly accounts for last year (ending August 2008) and yes, these are the ones I'm preparing. The previous treasurer has the ones from the year ending 2007 (and should be getting those finished and audited now). I wasn't really in a position to take those off her to sort out (have hands full enough with last year). I know before the year ending 2007 accounts were sent to the charities commision, so as far as I'm concered they're the responsibility of the previous committe, not me!