Nursery taking me to court next week over fees!!

[Charlene1]

I have always had an arrangement with our nursery to pay the fees in arrears as when dd started, it cost more than I was earning to send her, so we have forever been behind by a mont, playing catch up. Other parents do this as well.
She has left to start school, but the mgr got stroppy with me a couple of months ago saying the accounts department were demanding all fees be settled by the time she left - I said OK, but due to not having full wages and bills to pay this month, I couldn't pay it off on the day it was due. Nothing was put in writing, the manager said on the last day of nursery "We want a post dated cheque to cover it or we send it to debt collectors". This was in front of other parents and I was humiliated.
I said I would bring in cash when it was due. Obviously because I simply did not have the money this month, I was hoping she was bluffing to frighten me and I could go in and pay it off this month instead in full =, end of matter. I expected a nasty letter from accounts, at worst a debt agency letter or something.
I did not contact them last week, as frankly I never want to speak to that woman again after the way she hounded me nearly every day,for weeks, asking for a cheque and spoilt my daughter's last day there. I don't have a cheque book, and she knew I didn't and she knew my partner had no money in his account to honour any cheques he wrote!!
I have not had any letters or phone calls from the accounts dept or the manager in all of this - it was always verbal.
I have just received a summons yesterday - but I am not the only one who still owes money to them!!!!
I have to pay the full amount in 14 days and a fee of £35 or I get a CCJ!
I was paying it anyway before the 14 days are up, but partner was going to take cheque into their office (I was going to transfer the money from my account to his to cover it etc so I didn't have to take the cash in to her personally)

Problem is, court papers say I have to pay the costs as well as the amount owing, and I am supposed to do a income/expenses form.

So my questions are:

1. Surely I don't need to fill that form in or pay the costs if I am paying before the deadline? I think it is a bloody cheek to charge me for sending a form in the post!

And surely I only have to put my income and expenses that I pay from my wages as it is my debt not partners??? He will not allow me to put his details on as we are not married etc, it's none of their business etc.

1. The accounts dept is in a different town, but I don't trust the mgr to tell them I've paid it to her, or for them to say they've had it by registered post etc!!!

So is a cheque payment accepted by the court as paid the minute it physically reaches them, or 5 days after when it clears, as it may not clear in time??

1. Do I still get a CCJ if I have paid it BEFORE the deadline of 14 days???

(I had a summons for water years ago, but I rang them and they cancelled all action after I agreed a payment plan with them - no CCJ)

1. Is this even legal to serve these papers on me with no written warning from them????

Do a BACS transfer from your account to theirs and remember it may be trivial to you and everyone could owe them money but they have costs to pay running that nursery, feeding the kids, heating the place, paying staff and I bet people like you are the bane of their life.

cat64 - I could not put anything aside or pay extra every month - we were paying extra to start with to stop a huge bill building up to pay at the end.
I had utility bills to pay first and we had £90 in bank charges slapped on us in one month - so no, we couldn't put any moreaside. We always paid on time every month - "behind" meant we paid after the new invoices came out for the next month, not at the start of the month iyswim - it's just that she started harassing us about it in the last few weeks, and I couldn't get a loan or any way to pay it off to shut her up.
I have minimal tax credits now as I was overpaid last year, and had to pay it back this year - and actually, my employers do expect me to work every day without me knowing if there is money to pay us at the end of it - as I said, I haven't got full wages with bonus, only my basic which is low, for 4 months. I come out with next to nothing after childcare, so I couldn't pay it! when you start a job, they do pay a month in arrears as standard, so I don't see that your question was relevant - and my employers frequently get out of paying people who leave if they can - but that's a whole different thread and not relevant here.
I thought nursery was out of order as I couldn't believe that after 2 years they would turn on me for the sake of a small amount, yet let others off with paying it off over the next few months!! And I know they have done that!!
I know they are running a business, but if you read my post properly - they just summonsed me and I had not agreed it would be paid before she left but the week after when I got paid!!! And if customers at work don't pay us, we don't treat the ones that do pay/offer to pay up to a court summons without trusting them. Any summonses happen months after payments are due!!

Madame Castafiore "I bet people like you are the bane of their life" - what a mean thing to say!!! "People like me" are the same as everyone else, robbing Peter to pay Paul - perhaps I should have stayed at home and claimed benefits?? No, I went to work instead, but had to owe money to nursery in the process - as did others there - which they fully accepted all along - they know full well I would pay as soon as I had the money. If I was a bad payer, they wouldn't have let her go for the last 2 years would they? Unfortunate "hiccups" in cash flow are a way of life for us and everyone else in the country at the minute, but I shouldn't have to be defending myself or explaining it to you - I come on here for help, not criticism.
Obviously I won't have problems paying bills when I actually get to keep my wages from now on, instead of paying it out in childcare, will I??
Do you think I enjoy not having enough money to pay living costs, when we have to choose what bill isn't getting paid this month because we had to use the phone or the heating this month? And yes, a nursery bill is trivial when we have other priority things taken from our wages/bank first that we have no control over - like the council tax for instance or we have other unexpected costs. And things like having to pay upfront for necessary work expenses that take a month to be reimbursed - not something we do on purpose is it?

Mrs Pickles - thank you for your advice - do I ring the court and say I'm not paying the costs to make sure they don't use that against me - saying I haven't paid etc?

If you can't afford the nursery then why are you sending your child there?

You don't have a right to be subsidised by the nursery and they are running a business. If you don't pay, then they are within their rights to claim their money back.

You are right, it's tough for everyone at the moment. And the nursery will be no exception. They also have staff to pay.

So why shouldn't they ask for the money that you owe them?

here is my opinion...

the nursary are very unreasonable...

you paid an amout every month...
and were planning on payng the final bill at the end

as i read it you had every intention of paying them a month later when you had your money.

I dont think they should have bought it up in frint of people, and i think court procedings when its clear you have every intention of paying is ott

Thank you nannyL!
BecauseI'mWorthIt - I couldn't afford the initial months fees upfront when she started, and we never had the money to catch up and pay in advance the whole time she was there. We had no other option of childminders etc at the time - and they are only £10 a week different in cost anyway.
It was the way they asked every day and now taken court action instead of a letter (even the council tax warns you by letter if you don't pay on time) - causing emabarassment and bordering on harassment - which is illegal by creditors, no matter who they are. And I sent her there because of the very fact I wasn't forced to pay up front like a lot of childcare - they were happy to let me pay at the end of the month. Again, I point out I have paid it every month for 2 years.

Cannot believe the nastiness on this thread. The OP was only asking for help. She was not months in arrears, she was going to pay the amount she owed. FFS, give the girl a break.

Instead of sitting on her bum, doing nothing she has got a job, but is still struggling, like many young mums.

Hope you can sort things out, Charlene1

But the OP states that her daughter has now left the nursery and that this bill in arrears was due more than 2 months ago.

Perhaps the nursery think that she has moved on and is not going to pay? They are within their rights to collect money due to them, surely? I find it incredible that anyone would think otherwise. They are running a business fgs.

Why not think about the people who are running the nursery, and who are not getting the income that they are working for?

The OP says:

"I never want to speak to that woman again after the way she hounded me nearly every day,for weeks, asking for a cheque and spoilt my daughter's last day there"

Well how self-centred is that? I'm really sorry if you think that this is a nasty response - it is not intended to be - but the OP entered into a contract when the child was sent to the nursery, and therefore the nursery does have a right to claim money that is owed to them. The nursery manager also stated when and how she wanted the money, so the OP also knew what the consequences would be if she didn't pay.

Yes, people on this site can be sooo nasty sometimes it beggers belief. Wonder if they are like that on RL....

Anyway, I thing the nursery manager is awful and since she has involved the courts, I would fill in a Income and expediture form (bumping up everything) and offer a payment of £1 a month and let the nursery go sing....

But that is what I'll do (obviously, this will mean I'll get a CCJ, and it wont bother me because I've got one anyway).

Best of luck

Thank you for the kind messages Creole, Pickles,Kitty!
I tried to ring the court this morning but couldn't get through, but website says if we pay it in full, we can claim costs back later due to low income etc, so hopefully I can get through to them before Friday as we are paying it off then anyway when I get paid - and DP is going to demand a receipt, which hopefully we can then scan and email to the court as posting it won't make the deadline - and the nursery can still claim I haven't paid and automatically get judgement by default as it is being done online - and they get to choose if I get a judgement or not if there is no proof. Not funny!!!!

BecauseImWorthIt - yes I do think you are being nasty and it is uncalled for - I am upset enough without your remarks, thank you very much - I am NOT 2 months behind - the money was due to be paid off by the 1st September - it is only the 22nd - that is 3 weeks. In order to defend myself further against your comments:

"Perhaps the nursery think that she has moved on and is not going to pay? They are within their rights to collect money due to them, surely? I find it incredible that anyone would think otherwise. They are running a business fgs.
Why not think about the people who are running the nursery, and who are not getting the income that they are working for?"
I am thinking about the rest of the staff that had a good relationship with my daughter - who now won't see her in holiday times - and she will never see them again - as there is no way we are going back there - even when we will have the money to pay upfront - as we had planned to continue sending dd and ds in holiday times for the next couple of years - but not now! So they have lost income long term by doing this.
I didn't not pay on purpose - I have said that. Have you never missed a payment for anything in your life as you couldn't afford it??? I go past the nursery everyday and see the staff walking home/to school - hardly "moved on" have I?
There are also ways of collecting money - that was why I posted this in legal topic, as I wanted to know if they had acted illegally in serving papers with no warning.
(My work certainly can't do court action without warning letters so why should they get away with it? Our customers pay us quickly as we charge high interest on overdue invoices - we very rarely go to court - there is no need for it as it definitely ruins a customer relationship)

"I never want to speak to that woman again after the way she hounded me nearly every day,for weeks, asking for a cheque and spoilt my daughter's last day there"
That is not "self centred" - she spoilt my daughter's last weeks at nursery, spoilt her last goodbyes and embarassed me in public - obviously it has upset me a lot. I offered to ring the accounts dept but the manager repeatedly told me not to, she would deal with them on my behalf as I didn't need to - yeah right - so I trusted her and look what happens!!

"the OP entered into a contract when the child was sent to the nursery, and therefore the nursery does have a right to claim money that is owed to them. The nursery manager also stated when and how she wanted the money, so the OP also knew what the consequences would be if she didn't pay" - Yes, my contract and agreement for the last 2 years as explained was to pay at the END of the month, not the start - and nowhere does it say in the contract that they would take me to court with no written warning.

So I'd prefer it if you please don't post on this thread if you are just going to have a go at me and not say anything helpful/legal.

Yes they should have sent you a warning letter first, however, when you ended the contract you were liable to pay all fees owing.
If you were paying a month in arrears then by the 22nd of Sept you would have been nearly 2 months in arrears.

It sounds like the payments have been an issue for a while because you talk in terms of weeks rather than just the last week of nursery.

You stated in your op that "nothing was put in writing" which therefore means that you only had a tacit approval from the manager to pay in arrears whilst the contract waqs ongoing. The manager quite rightly gave you 2 months warning that you would have to apy up all costs owed by the time your daughter left the nursery.

Two months is ample notice to pay.

If i were you i would simply pay the money as others have advised and make sure you inform the courts you have done so.
#Yes i agree that the manager perhaps should not have spoken to you the way you claim she did on the last day, however, she is probably under alot of pressure to get the fees paid and it sounds like you two have had a running battle for a while.

I would let it go once you have paid and move on. In future, make sure you always have the funds available to pay any childcare, that way no one will be stressed and your childcare will be assured.

newforold - no you have misunderstood completely - the nursery manager only got arsey with me in the last few weeks not "a while". She lied to my dp saying I had "agreed to fetch a cheques in from my account next day" - funny that, as I DON'T have a chequebook, - as she well knew, as I said (as does DP!). She then told me next day dp had agreed to weekly payments. He hadn't. 3 days later she told me I couldn't pay by BACS it had to be cash. The next time she hounded me, she demanded a CHEQUE from my account immediately! I offered cash - she turned it down and said she wanted a credit card - I didn't have one, so offered to pay by BACS - she agreed. The next day she was back to hassling DP for a cheque, even though I had already agreed BACS. Then she said she wanted nothing until the end of the month. Later that day it had changed to "could I give her anything now in cash".
So please don't post that I "claim" she said these things as that is what happened - and I have witnesses obviously.

Your comments:
"Two months is ample notice to pay" - Yes, of course it is if people have the money available, and if they are given that amount of notice.

"If i were you i would simply pay the money as others have advised and make sure you inform the courts you have done so". I am paying it - there is no question I am NOT doing that.
"Yes i agree that the manager perhaps should not have spoken to you the way you claim she did on the last day, however, she is probably under alot of pressure to get the fees paid and it sounds like you two have had a running battle for a while.

I would let it go once you have paid and move on. In future, make sure you always have the funds available to pay any childcare, that way no one will be stressed and your childcare will be assured".
Yeah, I would love to have funds available all the time to pay but I can't magic it from thin air when I have just lost my bonuses and tax credits for the last 4 months. Perhaps I should tell my kids they aren't getting fed this week or the electric is being cut off, as I have to pay for childcare???? I don't think so!
Sorry, but I found that very patronizing/pompous from you.

And I wasn't ending the contract - dd was only stopping FULL time care that the nursery grant went towards - she was still booked in for PART time care all the way to the end of October to cover starting school/half term - and we had already signed up for future holidays - and I certainly didn't get two months notice to pay up!! - she told me at the end of July that she wanted all the summer holiday money up front and everything paid off by 1st September - that would not have been too bad - except I did not have anywhere near enough money left to pay for it all - which I didn't know when I agreed that obviously. Their original demand was the whole lot paid on the 1st August, and money in advance for part time care on top of that - much, much more than I even earn in a month - ridiculous and completely out of the question!
So please read things carefully before making statements like those.

The issue here is not IF I am paying up - just should they have given me notice in writing because I don't see why I should pay court costs when it is getting paid within that deadline anyway, and how would I pay it.

"last few weeks" is a while.

You've already said you couldn't afford the initial fees up front when your dd started, if you can't afford a service that is as vital as childcare then you need to look at your working arrangements. That's not being pompous, that's being sensible.

I went back to work full time when dd was 5 months old, as a single mum with no maintenence, no tax credits and a low wage.I never expected her childcare provider to give me a service "on tick".

My point was that, yes they should have given you the proper notice if they wanted to take you to court, but also, this could be a good lesson for avoiding this sort of issue in the future.
Take that how you want to.

I would imagine that the court would only accept a cleared cheque as prood that outstending debts had been paid.

If you're going past the nursery evry day, surely you could go in with your cheque and ask for a receipt. Even if it was just marked "payed by cheque". Both you and the nursery would soon have irrefutable proof as to whether or not the debt had been paid.

AS to some of the other comments.... I am treasurer of a pre-school (slightly different, I know). I have sleepless nights worrying about whether or not we'll have enough money to pay our staff. When people don't pay their bills on time, it makes life very difficult, to say the least. And if someone left the pre-school with outstanding debts, I would pursue them in the small claims court because, as I see it, if we let one person "get away with" it, then we'd have to let others "get away with" it.

I'm not having a go, just trying to let you see that there's another side to all this.

How can the OP pay by cheque when she doesn't have a cheque book?

Offering cash is offering a form of legal tender and it will be thrown out of court if it comes to light that the OP offered cash and was turned down.

Basically I feelthe nursery changed the boundaries at little notice. They agreed how the fees were to be payed, then went back on it and sudden;ly demanded them up front.

If they had not agreed to this then the OP may possibly never have started a contract with them in the first place.

I really think that some posters do not read threads before jumping in.

I wonder what financial constraints the nursery itself is under. Non payment of invoices is a massive problem for small businesses and it wouldn't surprise me if their cashflow is a real issue at the moment.

I think your big mistake was to stop communicating. Remember the nursery will have wasted time, effort and money chasing you for the debt, which they can probably ill-afford.

Why has this turned into nitpicking and levturing me about I should have paid the bill?
I don't need a lecture, i asked for answers on legal points - people have gone way off topic for the sake of being pom,pous - yes newforold, that is being pompous - telling me "it's a good lesson for the future" - no a good lesson is don't bother working, I'll give my job up and sponge shall I?? I don't think so - you may have had enough money to pay up front but I didn't - as we all know you cannot claim tax credits until you start work - and I don't see why you didn't get tax credits as a single mum. My wages were less than the cost of childcare when I started - which is why I couldn't pay upfront. End of - are you happy with that??
llareggub - if she hadn't hounded me everyday, I would have kept communicating - it got to a point where it was too much pressure - I have enough to worry about at the minute. I work in a job where I don't know if we will get paid or not at the minute, so I can't go promising to pay people until the money is actually in the bank - we can't go writing cheques out until funds have cleared - which they have now, thank god.
Islandofsodor - thank you for your support

Perhaps people have reacted the way they have because you appear so annoyed about a situation that is, in effect, your fault! You seem to be incredulous that the nursery is pursuing you for money which you owe them - as if they don't have the right to do this! Well, why shouldn't they take you to court?

Because they should send a letter first at least - THAT's why I was annoyed.

hm, I can understand you op...but if you had contacted them about being further delayed in payment, they would probably have been more understanding....

your child does not visit the nursery anymore and you are now an additional month behind without notifying them...how were they supposed to know for sure that you would pay what is due....

Communication is so very important....

It does sound all a bit harsh though...and I hope you can sort it out...

Reading this thread, the OP comes across as expecting the world to owe her a living, when in fact, they have been doing her favours for two years.

Once a child disappears from nursery, it is reasonable for them to get antsy about money owed, especially when it does not arrive on the anticipated date.

They may be in the wrong about giving the notice for the court action, but they should still get their money as a priority. They need it more than the utility companies, etc., as they will not be in a position to absorb non-payments. The finances of a nursery will be very break-even, with even the owners taking only a modest wage, and the employees on minimum wage.

The default rate on nursery fees is way higher on the part of those who are already in arrears. Cash flow is key to managing a business successfully and if the nursery runs into financial difficulties because of slow paying parents (REMEMBER their wages bill has to be paid in full on-time each month) then lots of working parents will suffer if the nursery has to close.

This happened to a nursery where we live and it messed up the parents working lives big time suddenly having no child-care plus having to spend time finding alternative childcare for their children who all had to spend time adjusting and settling into new surroundings and routines.

You already had a concession to pay in arrears when some other parents were paying on-time or in advance, I do feel you should have seen this coming and planned accordingly. You didn't need to find the money all at once, but it could have been put away bit by bit over the time that your child attended the nursery. Have you seriously not had any treats over the past couple of years, take aways or bottles of wine or that extra Christmas present for the children, where the money could have gone into the fund to cover eventualities such as this instead.

Due to the reduced availablity of personal and business finance facilities (credit crunch) many businesses will be looking at their debtors list and deciding to get a bit tougher in an attempt to collect the money in sooner over the coming months. The nursery are trying to safeguard their future and the childcare places for other paying parents.

Moral of the story, get a rainy day fund and keep topping it up after you dip into it.

Ive worked in a private day nursery in a deprived area -ive seen mums struggle to pay fees,ive seen children wearing plimsolls in the snow,ive known mums who bring their dc for breakfast cos they cant afford cereal and milk at home every day,I witnessed 1 mum/dad who would walk over 2 miles to nursery and then 3 miles to work bcos they couldnt afford a car or transport.

I think that the nursery manager has dealt with this v badly and i feel sad for Charlene to be humiliated this way-there is ways of asking for money owed both professionally and out of common courtesy.

How the heck can you build a rainy day fund when every day showers?????

some very arrogant posts on here -lets hope they never feel such financial worry.