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Original poster

legal rights if dp took kids to italy

14 replies

elmoandella · 28/07/2008 21:16

bear with me,

dp (i say dh sometimes as engaged), and me have a bit of a rocky relationship due to his gambling. had another spat last weekend. was very very close to being lone parent after he spent 4 nights at casino till 6am.

was wondering , his name is on birth certificate. kids place of residence is this house which is in his name. i am sahm as cant afford childcare for 2 kids under 2.5y o.

to be honest i cant really leave as i have no where to go. no money to live on till i get a job.

but i've also realised it would be very easy for dp to get kids an italian passport and just take them to italy where he has a house and pils.

what can i do incase we do split. is there any legal documents that will safeguard he cant do this. coz if we do split it will be nasty.

OP posts:
lurkingdad · 29/07/2008 19:31

My (admittedly limited) understanding is that the law of the country they reside in comes into force. There have been some high profile cases e.g. the 14th year old girl who fled a Scottish island to live with her dad. The courts in Pakistan ruled the jurisdiction was the Scottish courts so she had to return there. I found this which may help to set your mind at ease.

Rosa · 29/07/2008 19:39

I would contact CAB as they would give you a place to start. Have the children been registered as Italian citizens as well as in order to get passports they need to have been registered first even if your dp is Italian. In order to do that he needs birth certificates and I think along the line your signature as well. I am guessing as when I got dd Italian Id both parents had to sign and I had to produce all kinds of bits of paper.
I would get some advice if you think he might do a runner -

Original poster
elmoandella · 29/07/2008 20:17

he took birth certificates to consulate when we enquired about dual passport.

they registered them. i received the confirmation letter recenty saying they were both regstered with the italian consulate as living at this address. with dp. obviously no mention of me on these forms. his wife (seperated technically but not divorced) is however not as beng seperated on these forms. but still no mention of me.

but he never went ahead with dual passport as no need as have uk ones.

OP posts:
Ellbell · 29/07/2008 20:20

Not sure about the legal side of things, elmoandella, but it's my understanding that Italian children can travel on a parent's passport (i.e. they don't need a separate passport as in the UK, though I don't know ifimagine that the parent needs to have them specifically named on their passport).

Definitely second advice to talk to CAB asap.

Ellbell · 29/07/2008 20:22

Eek... sorry about that incoherent bit, computer playing silly buggers tonight . Should have said 'but I imagine that the parent...' etc.

Original poster
elmoandella · 29/07/2008 20:23

hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm actually. i'm pretty sure that may still be the case. italian kids dont HAVE to have own passport like here. so suppose he could just bugger off if he wanted.

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Ellbell · 29/07/2008 20:33

I think the info you need is on this site elmoandella. I have to dash now, sorry. Hope it all works out for you.

Ellbell · 29/07/2008 21:28

Summarising:

Under 15s can travel with a birth certificate, if this has been authenticated by the police in the town where they are resident. (I suspect that abroad the consul may have this power). They don't need their own passport till they are 16.

Within the EU they can also travel with a carta d?identità, but it doesn't sound as if your dcs have one of those.

To get a passport for an under-16, the consent of both parents is needed, regardless of whether or not they are married.

Hope this helps.

controlfreakyagain · 29/07/2008 21:35

has he said he will take them away? what makes you think he would? if you have grounds for real fear you could apply to court for a residence order (says dcs live with you) and prohibited steps order (he is not to remove them from your care / from england and wales without your written permission / permission of the court). in an emergency these orders can be made without notice to him in the first instance. sounds like you could do with some legal advice about your general position in any event.... good luck.

Original poster
elmoandella · 30/07/2008 13:12

if they can be made in emergency, then i'll probably be safe to leave it just now. do it if we do go belly up.

OP posts:
Rosa · 30/07/2008 14:13

The childs carta d'identita is free but we both ha dto sign to get dd's and produce our passports carta d'identita at the same time. In fact on dd's it says has to be escorted by either me or dh- she could not travel with inlaws or g parents.

Original poster
elmoandella · 30/07/2008 14:32

so he definately couldn't get one of these without me signing?

OP posts:
Rosa · 30/07/2008 15:26

We got dd 's in Italy and when we took the form in I took both our id cards and the form signed by both of us -we had to wait 10 days for issue. Having said that I honestly can't recall if it was because both of us could be escorting dd and therefore it needed our signatures. Why don't you call the Italian consulate they were very helpful when I had a question about dd passport.They will be able to tell you exctly what is needed

Original poster
elmoandella · 30/07/2008 15:53

thanks rosa.

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