Getting a proper response from hmrc for personal tax issue they caused

[sleepwouldbenice]

I will try to keep this short. I am so bored but annoyed by it!
I had relatively simple tax affairs....Higher rate tax payers but no self assessment needed. Mostly Paye.
But changed employers a few times.

One employer from a few years ago didn't do salary sacrifice so claimed additional tax back from pensions paid
Another employee in 2334 and 2425 was an umbrella company so mostly paid directly into private pensions separately. Couple of odd other ups and downs ( eg bit of tax due on higher Interest received) but nothing major

Key thing was that all tax affairs boxed off up to 2324....

In march 25 I was annoyed to realise I hadnt reclaimed higher rate pension relief on a small pension I had had for years. 480 pa so £96 pa due back, put in a claim for last few years into hmrc...

They totally messed up... They deleted all my original pension tax records for those years and replaced them with this small pension, instead of adding the small one to the existing records
They then say I owe them lots of £.... I simply dont as the only change should be the 480 pa

They claim I have to prove them wrong. This would take hours and I might not have the records as I am not obliged to keep them that long. It was also their error!
I have rung many times for hours of my time (they often cut you off, and they dont understand the issue), written letters and raised a formal complaint

No response. Or at least not one where they dont insist they are right and I need to prove them wrong... its been nearly a year!

In addition to this they recently re opened my tax records from 20/21 and said I owed them money from then. Again with a letter with figures on but no explanation as to what has changed. Again I have binned those records. My small pension claim doesn't even go back that far so no clue why this has happened!

To top it all off they've not done my tax from 24/25 yet with no explanation as to why. It was originally due oct / Nov, now my online hmrc account says due may. How can this be fair or right? They actually owe me quite a bit of money from that year so its not really fair!

Finally they also seem to think I owe them over £1k for tax on bank interest for 2526 which simply isnt right as much of my savings are in ISA but I can't get them to tell me what records they have, for me to challenge this and I can't see where to challenge this error online. So again they owe me money as they have changed my tax code for this year and 26/27!

Any suggestions as to how I can actually get them to deal with me, work this through, not just send letters that are wrong and non sensical..appreciated please!

Or how to tackle any of these sub issues...

Thanks for reading all this and for any advice....

Nothing to add other than I’m pi$sed off that HMRC have yet to get their sh!t together in 2/3/500 years time.

So have you completed any tax returns, or have you contacted them for each separate issue?

Whatever you do next, saying you don’t have records anymore won’t really cut it if you’re trying to claim tax back.

You could pay an accountant to compile your case and contact HMRC for you to clear it up once and for all.

That’s your relatively simple tax affairs?

Don’t get me started - I’ve just had a new coding notice where they’ve “estimated” that my earnings for 26/27 are going up by 30%…… BASED ON WHAT???

I’ve not changed jobs and only have 1 income….

This pushes me into the effective 60% rate so I’m going to be on a negative tax code meaning my net pay from April will be c£1k less than it is now.

Can I fuck get anyone on the phone to understand why this might be a problem…..

Might be worth considering a subject access request for all info they’ve got about you, including records that have been superseded.

Thanks for replying.

i don’t do returns, they do simple assessments. It worked fine until this issue

i have tried for hours to contact them over their pension error. Probably 10 calls in all, several letters etc

the interest receivable I had hoped to do online rather than call. Same for chasing them for my 2425 overdue tax calc and the opening of my 20/21 tax year

i am not really trying to claim tax back I am trying to correct their mistakes.

The only change wasme claiming tax on the 480 pa pension. I do have the statement for that which they’ve had for a year. What I don’t have is all the details of my pension tax relief that was previously resolved before hmrc deleted my records. There is no requirement to do so and all the queries and tweaks were sorted

https://www.theaccountancy.co.uk/tax/your-guide-to-simple-assessment-tax-312068.html

Yes it is

claiming tax relief on pensions should be simple. They do have an online section for it, it was straightforward they messed it up

interest receivable varies and again should be a non issue

they are trying to move people away from tax returns. I have asked them before if I should do it, they didn’t want it

it all worked fine until this point

thanks for your valuable contribution

Wow how annoying! I think you can change this online though. When I changed jobs in the past you can log on to change the estimate. Might be worth a look…

Thanks for the idea

one of the times I did speak to someone, about 6 months ago, they did suggest this…. But then they just sent me details of my employer based pensions, not any variations such as the direct payments into private pensions or the salary sacrifice reclaim. Ie the nuances outside of the basic system,,,

i have a friend who works for hmrc on the business side. She says the system doesn’t keep records to have an audit trail between different calculations, records are superseded. When it’s gone (their error) it’s gone and they can’t trace back…..

Urrrgh, god I have sympathy. DH and I run our own company, I do our personal and company accounts (learnt on the hop, no qualifications but needs must) DH earns a salary, takes dividends but also has been paid from both the state and some private pensions for a few years. I don’t think there has ever been a single year when HMRC has got the amounts correct. But in the last four or so financial years it got a whole lot worse as DH went from being a high rate PAYE tax payer (also whilst being paid some pensions) to being a lower rate income tax payer through our own business, plus paying dividend tax and claiming pensions. HMRC seemed to implode when it came to working out what he owed as previously all pensions were paid to him less tax but then went to paying gross amounts and relying on the self assessment process to calculate what he owed. Except for some reason they monumentally screwed it up. Won’t bore you with the details but we now have written evidence from one pension provider that HMRC told them to record a lump sum payment of over £29k - that was never due and was never paid to DH - simply to try to make the figures look right. The amount of time and effort it has taken to get this sorted out is ridiculous and has taken away from working hours that can’t be claimed from any where or any one - HMRC say you owe money, tough shit, you’ve got to prove you don’t.
All I would say is that every single person I have spoken to from HMRC has been both sympathetic and lovely - it’s just the ‘system’ that is at fault. Appalling tbh.

Can you do another subject access request but specifically state that you want copies of all internal and external correspondence, all tax code notices, simple assessments, call recordings or transcripts of etc and the years you need it for. It sounds like they just sent you the standard employment history. Might take a while to get it back but at least you'd have a full record. Subject access is quite specific with HMRC, you have to state exactly what you need.

With the tax codes mentioned it will be system estimates, you can change estimated income etc on your personal tax account I think.

I think you are best getting the evidence they have requested from the pension companies and your employers / ex employers.

Then do your own calculations for each year (income, tax bands how they are adjusted for pensions, tax paid, tax refunds due) with the evidence stapled to each year, and copy it before you send it in.

I’d approach the local MP and ask him or her to write a letter enquiring about this.

I once wrongly had a tax rebate from a second job…..I knew this was wrong and held onto it for 3yrs. Made multiple phone calls and email, phone calls were all recorded by them and they can evident that, I have all my email trails. 3yrs they insisted I was wrong, had no clue about tax and they were indeed correct as was my 2nd employer. Finally used the money (my mistake I know), then 8 months later comes the letter saying they want the money back in one lump sum!! Honestly how can they demand this. For 3 yrs I could’ve given it back in one lump sum. Eventually after a lot of arguing they agreed a payment plan as I was going off on mat leave and obviously had hardly any income.

I would recommend every logs into their own personal tax account, check all the codes and estimated income. Saves so much hassle down the line.

they are however still incompetent (a bit like my payroll really who got figures out of the sky for my p60 but that’s another story).

Just update your expected earnings on the HMRC portal. Easy to do and will fix the issue.

Your pension company will be able to provide statements of contributions for all years. That will fix the pension issue.
Have you done taxcalcs for all years?

in my experience the data they have on interest received is usually correct.

I feel your pain, I am in a similar situation. Can you complain to the Ombudsman? It is a shocking state of affairs.

You have to keep records for at least 6 years.

Apart from that I also can’t believe HMRC would change your records themselves going back years. Of course there has to be a record of what has been submitted in your salt-assessments.
If there isn’t, the whole system is not fit for purpose.
Unless it’s made by the same people who are responsible for Horizon, then you are probably right.

There is no requirement to keep records under simple assessment at all
Even for more complex requirements its 22 months after the end of tax year
Keeping your pay and tax records: How long to keep your records - GOV.UK https://share.google/Jm37ls9T3GKj8EGf0
I can't believe they deleted records either but that's what seems to have happened!

Might do thanks

I do have the pension info but that's an awful lot of back digging by myself and I am worried I will miss something when I go back in time
Its not just about the pension records though. As a result of the pension claims in the past, or the interest calcs , I made payments to them or they paid me. I will have to rebuild and unpick it all
Due to their error

Might be an idea thanks. The original SAR was raised by the hmrc team, maybe they weren't prescriptive enough

At the end of the day they should be working on an incremental basis. They should be able to:

1. See that my tax affairs were closed and settled for 20/21 to 23/24
2. Therefore tell me what's changed

But they simply can't. Its ridiculous

The interest figure simply can't be right. The amount they say i owe, applying estimated interest rates, implies a level of savings i just dont have!