Retailers who deduct money from refunds - why do they keep doing it?

[orangeispurple]

This is the second time in a couple of years this has happened to me.

First time I ordered a large mobility aid online for my dad and there was a £45 courier charge P&P charge on top. We returned it (new and in original box) as it was too big for his door frames/living space and paid the return courier cost but then the retailer deducted their original courier charge too (even though I’d paid for it!). It meant we were £90 worse off. I looked into it and they’re not allowed to do this under Consumer contracts law. I eventually got the money back via Chargeback from the bank.

It’s happened again, this time with a much smaller amount. I returned an item, paid for return postage (which I expected) but the retailer has also deducted the cost of the outbound postage from my refund. If they do that to every return, they’d presumably be making a nice little bit of cash on the side. I messaged them and explained the law but their response was ‘It’s in our Ts and Cs and everyone does it and that’s the way it is’. I was polite but responded by saying ‘sure, but just because your terms and conditions state it, your Ts and Cs don’t line up with consumer rights’.

It seems really petty to pursue a chargeback for the sake of a fiver but perhaps that’s what these companies are relying on? Putting through a chargeback takes a couple of minutes to do and I wonder if it’s worth it on principle.

Anyone else experienced this?

I've noticed a few retailers doing this, which i always challenge and cite the regulation until they pay me back, but they'll be doing it to others who may not be as aware.

I don't know what the next step is or who they should be reported to.

I don't mind it so much for small independent businesses as I know it can have an impact on them, and I try to only buy things I know I want to keep, but when they're larger companies they should be doing better. A company I had beef with about this five years ago still have it written in their returns info that postage won't be repaid. It's definitely a nice side hustle for them!

Yes, I’m a bit loathe to pursue a chargeback because I suspect they’re a small company and they’ll also have to pay fees on top of the fiver they took from my refund.

The first time this happened to me (when I bought a mobility aid), the company were horrendous. I filed a chargeback and when the company got notification, they emailed to say that unless I removed it, they’d take legal action against me. It’s laughable now, looking back as it was clearly an idle threat but at the time it was very upsetting. In their response to the chargeback, they then claimed I’d returned the item ‘used, damaged and dirty’. Unfortunately (or fortunately for me!!) they forgot they’d also previously emailed me a copy of the inspection report which clearly said, ‘item returned in original packaging, no damage and suitable for resale’. Got my money back!

With this new company, they’re either ignorant of the law or just trying it on. Hard to tell. I don’t want to retaliate and hurt a small business but at the same time, they need to follow consumer law and not make up their own rules.

I had this with a company on etsy - they wanted me to pay £50 to return their faulty table, I had to go through disputes and eventually got it resolved.

How can they deduct postage which you’ve already paid?!

They only have to refund the cost of a Standard Delivery though - were either of these more than the standard delivery cost?
I can’t see that they’re making money out of it though, because even though you paid them the delivery cost they will have had to pay the courier/RM and won’t be able to get that refunded themselves.
I’ve retuned a few items since Christmas and I’ve just realised none of them actually had postage costs in the first place, suppose they’re building it in to the cost of the item.

one for trading standards?

Seems unfair the retailer ends up out of pocket because you changed your mind..

Yes, only the most standard cost they have available is what needs to be refunded. So if their standard option was 2nd class Royal Mail and you paid extra for next day delivery, they don't have to repay that extra you paid only the amount for 2nd class, but if they only offer next day delivery then they have to refund that as it's their standard option.

And yes, I do try and only buy things I'm certain I want to keep and tend to only return if something's faulty (or clothing, because retailers are terrible at listing helpful measurements). Retailers don't have to sell online but, if they do, they need to abide by the law.

To answer questions, I paid £35 for a pair of shoes. This was £31 for the shoes (on sale) plus £3.99 postage - fair enough.

I didn’t just ‘change my mind’ - the shoes were ordered in my normal size but when I tried them on, they were way too big. I followed their returns process and used their returns label. When the refund was processed I received £27.02 which was minus £3.99 for using their returns label (fair enough, I was expecting that) plus the additional cost of £3.99 for them sending them to me, even though I paid that. The retailer wouldn’t have been out of pocket other than the admin faff of sorting a return.

I expect to pay return postage for items I can’t use but consumer law doesn’t allow the retailer to deduct anything else from the refund unless the item is returned damaged (which they weren’t).

Like I said, it’s such a teeny amount but it seems to be common practice and it’s against consumer law. If you’re a small business I get why you’d want to recover your admin costs but that’s not what the law says.

Yep. I only try to buy things online that I’m pretty certain about and this retailer had great reviews so I figured it was safe. I contemplated just keeping the shoes and selling them on eBay but that would be a load more faff for me.

The retailer in question says they are in the right and only have to refund the outbound postage if the item is faulty. That’s not accurate. I kept all the messages polite but their final message was along the lines of ‘everyone does this, so we do too’. I mean, you could use that argument for lots of things but that doesn’t make it legal 😂

I'm a bit confused

You paid in total £34.99 incl £3.99 postage

You received £27.02 as a refund

Retailer therefore kept £7.97 - the £3.99 it cost to post the shoes out, and then the £3.99 (£3.98?) for the return postage. You therefore paid all the postage costs, it's just that £3.99 for posting out was paid up front and the other £3.99/98 for the return was deducted from the price of the shoes to cover the return postage.

Sounds right to me but not sure if I am missing something?!

Thinking about it I think I've had different approaches from different retailers - some retailers refund original postage costs, some don't. I've never thought to question it just assumed they have different policies!

I bought some furniture from an online shop, it came to just over £300. Twice I was given a delivery date but it didn't arrive.
When I rang for a refund they said I'd have to pay 25% for a return, that was their standard charge. To me non-delivery is not the same as a return, but that was what they did. Almost £80 for the delivery company's cock up.

Irrelevant - it's what the LAW says that matters and far too many online retailers havn't bothered reading and understanding the law and don't understand that the law over-rides whatever they may say in their T's and C's.

I've had numerous run ins with even big firms who have T&Cs contrary to the law, or where their staff don't even understand and comply with their own T&Cs, particularly Currys and Argos who branch and online customer services staff clearly have very poor training!

I’m confused. The shoes cost £31. You paid for postage. They returned you the cost of the shoes minus the return fee. To me that seems correct. They don’t return the postage fee unless the item is faulty / damaged / miss sold and they make that clear. Some companies as a good will return the entire cost, but I think that’s rare. You could buy 100 things and send it been and they have paid out £400 for you to receive and return it. That wouldn’t be workable for most businesses.

That’s surely illegal. You already paid for the postage for them to be delivered to you!

Can you quote me which bit of law you are talking about?

It seems grossly unfair for someone to order an item that is exactly what it was sold as and for the supplier to have to refund the outbound postage if the customer returns it because they just don't like it.

I agree the law says that outbound postage must be refunded if the item is faulty, but I don't see how it can be law to refund outbound postage on a voluntarily rejected purchase.

No, I've never noticed this.
I haven't needed to return anything since last year though, but I shall be checking more closely next time I do.

The original postage is supposed to be refunded whether the item was damaged or not. Its part of the consumer contract regulations regarding distance selling . If the item is faulty you shouldn't need to pay to return the item.

Refunding the cost of delivery
The trader has to refund the basic delivery cost of getting the goods to you in the first place, so if you opted for enhanced service eg guaranteed next day, it only has to refund the basic cost.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations-ajWHC8m21cAk

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations-ajWHC8m21cAk

This states that original postage should be refunded even if its just for a change of mind. This is because the item is bought online rather than in person

How interesting. I’ll be on the look out now for this.

This is in place because you aren't able to inspect things online before purchasing, as you can in store. That's why there are different rules for distance selling versus in-person.

Correct - it’s illegal but surprisingly common with some smaller retailers. If you query it, then usually say something like ‘it’s in our terms and conditions’ but that’s irrelevant as the law is clear.

I’m assuming most people don’t know about this and just accept it (especially for small amounts) but over time this could be a nice side hustle for some retailers.

I always thought you have to actually notify them that you’re cancelling the contract in accordance with the Regulations to get the refund of standard postage? Might be wrong though.

John Lewis are good at doing it automatically, provided you return the full order of course.

You need to notify of a return within 14 days and then have another 14 days to return the item

I don't understand how this would mean the retailer is making money though? They are losing less than the law says they should, but they're not making anything extra from it as they paid the postage to you. Unless I'm missing something?