London: how much is your household income if you live a comfortable life in zone 2?

[Palexpo]

If you are a family with 2-3 children who owns a property (with approx £1200 mortgage) and does not privately educate - what are you earning to live a comfortable life in London zone 1 or 2?

We lived in London pre kids and still own a house there we could return to. We are thinking of moving back but I don’t want to reduce our quality of life too much. We still want holidays and occasional meals out and after school activities for the kids. They are not too young so child care isn’t an issue.

With no childcare costs and such a low mortgage… you could probably live on fairly little in Z1/2.

Whatever your outgoings are now plus 10-20% to account for everything being a bit more expensive…!

Savings, holidays… those numbers shouldn’t really change based on living in London vs outside.

It really depends on so much else - your other expenses (travel/commute, utilities, etc), your savings, your jobs, your future plans.

Inner London is expensive in some ways (restaurants and pubs, entertainment, water bills, council tax) and cheap in others. We live in zone 2 and our transport costs are very low, because DP and I both cycle to work, DD walks to school and only DS gets public transport. We rarely drive. Food is cheaper from the markets and Turkish or Bangladeshi greengrocers than it is from the supermarket. Clothes cost the same as anywhere.

We don't often have dinner out, but we get street food for lunch from places like Broadway market, so say £10 per person, and it's a nice place to wander round.

Thanks. Interesting point that food might be cheaper. The Council Tax definitely won’t! I just worry that eating out, going for a coffee, having a drink in the pub, needing a cab home after a late night, etc will all be more expensive and with teens that will all be multiplied. Also we will have to commute by tube to zone one each day.

our combined income will be about £180k before tax which where we live now would afford us an amazing lifestyle but maybe not in London. All my friends in London seem to live on huge bonuses on top of big salaries which is not a life we will ever lead as public sector employees, albeit senior ones.

250k, three kids

A 1.2k mortgage in zone 1 or 2!!!! How long ago did you buy

I think with £180k salaries and a relatively low mortgage, you'll be more than fine and if not, your expectations are somewhat extravagant. You won't be able to endlessly spend without thought but you'll have thousands a month of disposable income for meals out, activities and travel.

I live in a northern city but travel to London fairly often and it doesn’t seem much more expensive than where I am really. Plus there's lots of free things to do, don't DC get free transport?

Plus you don't need a car, transport actually functions so you don't need a cab at night you can use the tube/bus and isn't council tax famously lower than the rest of the country?

1.2k monthly repayment, not 1.2k owed. But I bought 22 years ago. I lost both my parents in my teens which was horrific but meant I did get on the property ladder very early and at a decent time in the market.

In general terms, I find being in London can actually be cheaper in many ways than other parts of the U.K., as there’s so much competition and a huge range of choices.

Where London is expensive is housing. A lot of people are paying £1,200 to rent a room in a house share, if not more again.

There is a bit of a two tier system in London of people who are paying modern day full rents, versus people who have low housing costs.

I meant 1.2k a month, it's incredibly low.

But I bought 22 years ago.

That explains it, I thought it had to be a long time ago. Sorry about your parents.

I mean the cost of living anywhere in the UK will be fairly identical with a 1.2k mortgage, that’s the main limiting factor. We were paying more than that in Watford on a 50k salary and just about managing.

North of £250k, but our mortgage is near £3k a month. Three children, state school. I think you’ll be fine. It’s the mortgage/housing costs which take the biggest chunk, and yours are low. How are the schools near your property?

You’ll have a great life in Z2 on that income with that mortgage. So much free stuff to do and travel is a reasonable cost.
Eating out is better and cheaper than anywhere else.
I find the hardest thing about living here is trying to find trades.

We are in zone 3 with a similar sized mortgage and a joint income of £150k and 2 DC. I think on £180k you shouldn't have an issue.

Black cabs and meals out are eye-watering, so my family don't often do either, but there is so, so much else to amuse you in London. And getting around can be cheap. Teens get free bus travel, and the cycling infrastructure is great.

I'm surprised you didn't mention secondary schools - this must be one of your main concerns, surely?

Do you ever go into London OP? I’m wondering if you can work it out yourself.

I live in North London, zone 2/3 border. We earn upwards of £250k and when we’ve dipped below that (self employed income), we’ve been stressed at having a life that we can’t afford. We have a big mortgage.

We used to live in zone 2 on a joint income of £100-£120k with preschool children and a mortgage and it was comfortable, but we never went on holiday. And that was 10 years ago.

Life is so very expensive now.

180?
You’ll be fine.

And what’s your mortgage?

Very big!!!

And one child at private school (on a partial scholarship but we do pay partial fees).

We have an expensive life that we can borderline afford. It’s very stressful. Life was easier 10 years ago!

I don’t think it really matters if you live in Z2 or Z6 (or Z1-anywhere in Greater London). Prices are no different. I’ve recently spent some time in another large city and prices were similar. Commuting costs tend to be a lot cheaper in London. The biggest cost is mortgage, I don’t know anyone with a mortgage under £2k, and most are a lot more than that!! I think you’ll be fine. What are your biggest expenses now and how do they compare to London? Holidays will cost the same (maybe cheaper as a bigger choice of airports), you’d have to be drinking a lot of coffee to notice any meaningful difference, and supermarket food is pretty much the same price anywhere.

But you're making your finances 'very stressful' by making very expensive choices.

Your house/mortgage will almost certainly be bigger and/or in a more expensive area than what you need and obviously private school is optional.

Whether you spend your money on an expensive house, private schooling or regular when there's public transport available, it's all choice and whether you earn £180k or £250k, you still have thousands a month to spend how you choose and you could easily have more comfortable, less stressful finances by making different choices.

Oh absolutely. We’ve chosen to live here and school that way and have a summer holiday each year and go to the theatre, have dinner out once in a while, do exercise classes, and have a social life - we can afford it. Just!

The OP asked if we had a comfortable life in north London zone 2, how much do we earn. And that’s what we earn, and we have a comfortable life. When finances go well, I don’t feel stressed - but we don’t have generational wealth so things could go wrong and I do find that stressful when I think about it.

We're zone 3/4 border with a 115k joint income, similar monthly mortgage and feel quite comfortable. If we had lower transport costs from being more central we'd be even better!

We don't have a high rolling lifestyle and holidays are more of the eurocamp vein rather than 3 weeks safari but generally we don't worry about money too much, kids do clubs. Most of our friends are similar income levels. None of us eat out as much as we used to in the 00s but that's partly an age and stage thing.

Genuinely think lots of things in London are much cheaper. There's such a concentration of free stuff for kids, teens can get practically free theatre tickets or do free workshops all summer, cinema is cheap, eating out is more competitive etc. Housing is the issue and you don't have that. I'm from a rural area and day to day expenses are much higher.

You’ll be fine, op. Stick everything in MSE budget planner. London is cheap once you take out housing costs.

Crikey I’d have thought with a £1200 mortgage you’d be pretty cushioned by London pricing. You won’t be in a much different position than a lot of people outside of London, and likely much better off than most inside.