Mumsnet really isn't the place to look for financial advice

[ItsFineReally]

Someone said on a thread yesterday that ‘Mumsnet really isn’t the place to come for financial advice’ and it struck a chord with me.

MN is a huge community of women, and yet when it comes to money, investing, or financial confidence, we lag behind. For example:
– Only 24% of women in the UK hold an investment product, vs 39% of men
– Less than half of women feel confident managing money
– Only 10% say they fully understand investing

Most of us are earning, saving, and running households therefore money is central to our lives. So why shouldn’t MN be a space where solid financial conversations happen?

I’m partly venting, but also wondering: should we try to make MN more of a hub for financial discussions, or is it better to accept that and just signpost people to other resources (MSE, Reddit, etc.)? I’d love to know what others think.

@ThreePears And somehow, here we are, with people assuming that women don't invest because they are too ignorant, or just don't understand how investments work. They don't need educating. They need to be able to earn more money.

That's an unfair characterisation of what has been said. I don't think anyone is denying that the wage gap and current cost of living crisis is not affecting the general population's ability to invest. But there is an education issue to discuss too.

Just for context @ThreePearsnot too long ago I was working VERY part time. So little I wasn't really any making pension contributions. Pretty soley dependant on my husband. I had done this because I had rationalised that when I worked FT, I was losing most of that on childcare (or the household pot was).

It was only by chance and being on here I realised 1. I needed to understand my personal financial position better 2. The situation I was in wasn't sustainable 3. As and when I had the ability, I needed to increase my working hours. It is with this information I could then start to think about what I needed to do and how best to do it.

I may never have confronted my reality if it wasn't for a random chance conversation here. Nor have been aware of what I needed to do. Of course women need to be enabled to earn more. But many like myself once upon a time, might not know how much important that is. This is where MN really helped me.

@funrunsunday I love this - great to hear!

I think the risk point is an interesting one. I'm not sure the strict regulations around investing (i.e. the warnings and caveats required) and the investment risk ratings help this.

Investing in a global ETF through a pension or ISA still counts as a risk rating of 6 out of 7 because it's purely in equities. If you told me there's a scale of 1-7 of financial risk, then a 6 to me feels very much like going to the casino and whacking it on black. Whereas most seasoned investors would see a diversified and passive fund as being quite sensible and rather than particularly adventurous.

Agree....at a glance it does seem terrifying. This is what I meant and hadn't maybe articulated about education. I followed a podcast by two women called "girls that invest" that really helped me get my head around the risk and it took me so much learning to slowly change my attitude to the risks. They also went into a lot of detail about mitigation of risk in a very logical way. They shared their own stories and why financial independence was so important for themselves and women. I found it so good to be learning from women who could explain this from a female perspective.

But I've come across all of this by chance. If I didn't, I'd maybe still be fully dependent on my husbands pension (and blind to that risk). It's madness people are left to stumble across these really important things in forums. I think these conversations are potentially the most accessible ways people can at least gain knowledge that they at least need to go away and look at things. Advisors cost and tend not to be active at 2am in the morning the same way forums are. 😂

I'd never take any advice here without doing my own homework. But it is a good conversation starter and the spark to start the fire.

What do you mean by education? Educating people sufficiently so they can earn more? Because if so, who's going to do all the menial low-paid work? Someone's got to do it.

Or do you mean educating people about finances and making the most of what investment & savings opportunites there are? Because if it is that, then it still isn't going to work if you don't have two halfpennies to rub together at the end of the week/month.

Exactly. You DID find the financial advice you needed on Mumsnet. Which is the very opposite of the point the OP is making.

The latter. Not that it matters because you seem determined to be militant about this. There are a great wealth of people are who not even aware that their situation isn't good or can be improved. The OP was about people that DO have money do invest/save/make overpayment with and comments made about how MN isn't the best place to come. OP does seem to be in disagreement with that comment also (unless I've misread) or at least wants MN to be a place where this conversation is productive.

I was not for one minute suggesting people can be "educated to earn more". As a previous poster on here mentioned, there's always someone who derails any money conversations into "lucky for you some have it worse". You are proof of this.

The type of changes you are referring to that are required to close the equity gaps for women require societal, structural and policy changes that neither you or I can influence. In the meantime I will continue to wholly endorse anything that can be done by any individual to improve their situation. I am aware there are many who cannot do this right now in their current circumstances.

What I am talking about is education of those, who are fortunate enough to have the means to ask questions about financial management.

Twist it whichever way you want. But who exactly are you helping?

No, not militant at all.

Just weary that once again, women are being blamed for their own 'failings'.

And I wasn't replying to the OP. I was replying to your ludicrous comments the seemed to infer that you though I had suggested the issue was the ignorance of women about investing. Which it did not. The above was response to YOU and your give me strength attitude. To demonstrate to you there are real life women who have benefited from financial education from humble means and originally poor financial positions.

It isn't. But again, you'll not be convinced.

Ps - nothing you have contributed is remotely helpful. How does that help other women.

MN is a huge community of women, and yet when it comes to money, investing, or financial confidence, we lag behind. For example:
– Only 24% of women in the UK hold an investment product, vs 39% of men
– Less than half of women feel confident managing money
– Only 10% say they fully understand investing

Why do you think this might be, OP?

How many men do you think would be able to detail exactly how to feed 3 children for a week on your remaining £30?

Women feel less confident with most (non-child-related) things, but that doesn't actually mean that they aren't at least as competent at it than men.

I can also imagine why women are less likely to be well-versed in "investing", when often their priority is making small budgets stretch to feed, clothe and sort out children, something far too many men don't bother with and/or don't contribute financially towards. So they have more time and money to "invest". Bully for them.

It's a lot easier to take financial risks when you're man than if you're a woman who has children who are completely dependent on you not losing your very limited remaining money.

Thank you for responding much more articulately than I would have. And for more accurately parsing my OP.

If you can point out where I've said that then I will wholeheartedly apologise because it's not my view at all.

You won't, of course, because I haven't.

@GreatWhiteWail I think it's for a number of reasons including structural drivers such as the pay gap, and the motherhood penalty.

I didn't suggest that women are less adept at investing; in fact several studies show that when women do invest, they perform better than men due to their approach.

What are your views? Do you think Mumsnet is a good platform for women to seek financial advice? Should this only be for those who are struggling or can it cater towards those who are interested in investing?

I am actually quite militant about women saving well. Women so often put themselves at the bottom of the deserving list, after the children *(understandably). But women are likely to outlive the men in their lives, and to need more savings over a much longer period. I hate to be the I told you so poster, but the best day to start thinking about your pension and what you want at 65 or 70 is TODAY. Now! Do not delay, don't think of an excuse. Ideally, choose a cheap index-linked fund like Fidelity Magellan and put what you can spare in every single month. It will look tragic and pathetic for five years, but stick with it and eventually it will suddenly look quite substantial. It might never make you rich, but it will make your life better. You may have new choices or just a fab retirement holiday.

The problem with MN on anything financial (or legal, actually) is that there are too many people giving their own opinions which, if taken, would be incredibly poor and misleading advice.

Whereas those people who know what they are talking about generally can’t say much other than “get professional advice” and try and point OP in the right direction, but get drowned out by the others.

Other forums are as bad, though. Reddit is awful unless you’re into dodgy crypto trading and even MSE has its weird obsessions that don’t necessarily reflect reality.

Not sure why my response got hidden! Oh well, it might come back.

If you earn, then a small part of what you earn you should save for yourself. Even if you have small expensive children, who can drain every last cent, save a bit for yourself; it is important.

I don't think the message I just posted at 19;39 qualifies as financial advice but I hope it is useful. Women do tend to give their all.

What are your views? Do you think Mumsnet is a good platform for women to seek financial advice? Should this only be for those who are struggling or can it cater towards those who are interested in investing?

One reason that this forum is more geared towards helping women who are struggling is that women who have money to 'invest' are not in a vulnerable position so there will be fewer women who spend the time discussing how to invest their spare thousands.

Reddit is great and I have never seen crypto trading upvoted as a good idea on any of the financial forums I’ve read there.

The great thing about Reddit is user volume, but then also the voting system - better ideas appear at the top, worse idea are downvoted. And then the comments chains discussing those ideas are very clear.

On mumsnet there is no such ‘ranking’ of comments, so there is no ‘top comments’ or clear debate about specific strategies without trying to follow a conversation over multiple pages (a general issue with the site).

The ‘go to’ on Reddit for UK people is the personal finance flow chart - and crypto isn’t a feature…! More like pay off high interest debt first, emergency savings, investment options etc.

It has lots of participants who are basically there for the finance chat - I find while you get informed comments here, it’s hard to find among the ‘my personal feeling based on nothing is’ comments - which is why premium bonds, as an example, often come up as the go-to place to put money when it’s not a good option for most people.

I agree that it’s an area where despite pockets of brilliance and reliability around divorce etc the general responses are too anodyne to be useful.

Knowledge helps everyone but is easily squashed with the tone deaf accusations but the objectively struggling need it most.

I have always done our finances and the mistakes I have made historically are ones that can be avoided now. Overpaying a mortgage was the height of my prowess and it didn’t do me badly but had I known how to invest those overpayments I would have had so much more cash later. Compounding is the secret really and I see my children invest aggressively using the knowledge I have now.

I was never that bothered by money and took fifteen years off with the kids but DH became ill and we nearly lost the house and had some very lean years. These years were when I built knowledge and now I am set for an early retirement and am mortgage free. It could have been very different and I could have made many better decisions.

Personally, I like the free sources of info - die with zero, the rebel finance course and others that are similar. I value budgeting and modelling and planning and encourage all women to become pension, investing and budgeting savvy.

I found this board really helpful. It encouraged me to save & invest, I'm not sure I would have done that alone.