Civil service pension and SIPP

[CallMeLime]

Does anyone know how civil service pensions work?
Trying to top up my SIPP but can’t figure out how much I can put in.
I pay ~ 4.6% via salary and employee pays 27% both into a defined benefit scheme.
How much can I pay into a SIPP?
Do I have to uplift those contributions stated above by 20% to get the total paid into the scheme?
Then do I take that amount off my total gross salary to figure out how much I can pay into the SIPP?
TIA

Oops - I meant employer pays 27% (not employee)

Have you considered the added pension route within your alpha pension and compared it to what you might get from the SIPP? I'd have thought it carries less risk. Worth considering. Also consider Effective pension age contributions. The outcome is same as added pension overall but I like the psychological benefits of planning to take the pension earlier.

Thanks. I’ve set up Added pension for next year.
But looking to see if I can add anything (to SIPP) for this current tax year.
Left it late I know…

Unfortunately it’s not very simple. Defined benefit schemes like the civil service scheme are valued in a different way for the annual allowance. It’s not the contributions going in that count, it’s the amount by which your benefits increase over the year. Basically how that works is that you take the overall value of your benefits at the start of the year (which is broadly annual pension x 16 then add on any lump sum you’re entitled to), then increase that by inflation. This is your opening value. Then find out the overall value of your benefits at the end of the year, which is your closing value. Deduct the opening value from the closing value and that’s your growth for the year. Deduct that growth from the annual allowance of £60k and that’s how much you will be able to pay into a SIPP (along with any unused annual allowance from the previous three years).

The civil service scheme will be able to tell you how much your growth has been in previous years, but they’re unlikely to be able to tell you your growth for the current year until they get all the final pay from your employer and do the calculations.

However you may find you’ve got enough unused allowance carried forward from previous years to cover what you would want to pay into a SIPP anyway.

It’s not a great system because it makes it really hard for those with a DB pension to know if they can pay extra into a pension arrangement. However if you can find out your growth for the previous few years that will give you an idea (just be aware that your pension growth is based on how your pay increases so your pension will grow more in a year you get a bigger pay increase than usual).

Thank you so much Chessie.
I’m finding it so hard to find information on this. Your explanation is clear.
I found a reply on MoneySavingExpert and another site but they didn’t quite explain the rise in value part.
I am on a low salary (£20k ish) so the £60k limit less the rise in value will be well above my annual salary - meaning my limit is: £20k salary less ~£1,100 I’ve paid via salary = £18,900.
The £1,100 is my ~4.6% contribution.
Multiply this £18,900 by 80% = £15,120. I can deposit this amount.
Does that sound about right?

You’ve got to be really careful as it’s nothing to do with your contributions as another poster said. The steps are here: https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/your-pension/yearly-pension-update/pension-savings-statement/annual-allowance/

The inflation rate can really affect it as well.

Your method above is wrong as it’s nothing to do with what you’ve paid in- it’s what you’ve actually accrued.

So roughly if you’re on £20k - you’ve accrued 20k x 2.32% assuming you’re on a newer scheme which is £464. You then have to multiply that by 16 which means you’ve accrued £7424. You then have to look at what you’ve built up already and apply the inflationary uplift to understand what further benefits you might have accrued.

A person cannot usually receive tax relief on pension contributions worth more than 100% of their annual earnings so the £60k annual allowance won’t apply to you.

Thanks. That has confused me again.
I’ve worked there for just over three years.
Started on around £25k for one and and half years then went to part time hours.
My ABS is showing I have an annual pension of £372 for 2022; £988 for 2023; £1572 for 2024.
So how do I work out ‘what I’ve built up already’?

The yearly amount built up so far will be the £1572 from the 2024 statement. As it is the most recent figure.

Remember you can also carry forward unused allowance from the previous three years. There is a calculator on the HMRC site.