UC fraud (?)- what do I do?

[anxiousship]

Hi all
I need advice, I am a total trainwreck and can't get my sh&^ together on how stressed I am now.

I work full-time, single mother, renting, my child is disabled.
I have applied for UC 2 years ago and declared the savings I had which was £10k, was getting UC every month since then. UC would contain of disabled child element, single parent, rent and childcare and deduction for the 10k savings.

UC could see my salary every month through the NIN or wherever they get the information from. I was never contacted by UC for any questions and the only time when I needed to log in is to declare childcare costs ( wraparound care). I live in London and the rent is quite high so is the childcare (around £400 a month), so I was getting around £600 a month despite me working full-time on a "good-ish" job, which was a massive help.

Yesterday I was reading a random article about savings and what classified as savings and I realised that the Young Saver account which I have opened years ago for my child, where I and my ex-husband transfer money monthly) has to be declared too because even though it is a Young Saver it is on my name and I have access to the funds. I have realised that because of that and me not declaring it I have committed a massive fraud as I did not declare my savings in full!

When I opened UC account, it was around £4k in savings in Young Saver, but it grew to over £6k in savings in the last year or so which means that last year or so I should not have been eligible for UC at all due to the £16k threshold, meaning that I unintentionally committed a fraud!

I am sure when I opened the UC account it said that child accounts does not count as savings but I never read the "small prints" that if it is on my name, even if it is a Young Saver it should have been! I am mortified. I think it is only some children's account like trusts which are disregarded, which is not my case ( I know now!).

So in the first year I should have reported around 14k in savings instead of 16k in savings so I would be still eligible for the UC just it would be reduced more according to 14k savings and not 10k savings but in the second year when it would go to 16k over I would not be eligible for it at all and I was getting it!

I had a massive meltdown and panic and I went to my UC account and declared the change in savings backdating it to almost a year ( it is hard, because between 3 accounts I do not know when exactly the threshold went over the 16k) also, between then and now there were times when it would be under the 16k due to outgoings from my current account, but STILL I should have declared it because I had more than 10k in savings which I declared from the beginning.

Again, I feel so guilty and so mortified on what will happen now. As I said, I declared it on my UC account and I also added a message in my journal explaining all I have explained here, that I simply thought that Young Saver is not classified as savings except for now I know it does. I obviously mentioned that I am happy to repay it all back and that it was a genuine (stupidity) mistake and I do apologise.

Some people online said "just go and take out cash" but I did not want to do it because I was planning to buy a little flat on 5% mortgage and I need 14k for that anyway, so I do not want to do anything illegal.

I am ready to give all the overpaid money back and of course my UC account being closed, but will I be prosecuted? will I go to prison? I have no family in the country and who would look after my disabled child if they sent me to prison?

I have called the UC advice line crying but they just said that "mistakes happen" and that I did the right thing on reporting it now and leaving a message in the journal explaining all that and they were empathetic and said that I won't go to prison, but I am totally devastated, I really did not realise that I am a fraudster. Am I?

Any advice would be much appreciated. Please do not beat me too much, I really did not know that I am so bloody stupid.

What is next? I guess they will need my bank statements for two years or so and start investigation? How can I and what do I do to avoid the prosecution ( court and prison) , I will of course pay all I owe back ( I know they take it in installments and pay the fine if needed).

You've had some good information here OP - don’t worry. It sounds like you are slowly building up money and your child will need it. Get advice from a welfare organization and if they did decide it is your money you have a month to challenge the decision -ask for a mandatory reconsideration and then a month to appeal.

not for OP
A note from this suggestion on transferring money, Absolutely fine if DWP decides it is not your capital to transfer to the third party eg child ISA . If the DWP sees money that is yours being transferred out from an account that you have access to into one you don’t they may look at deliberate deprivation. This is deliberately giving away money if part or all of the reason is to increase benefits - reasonable spending and paying debt including mortgage are fine.

Also is any of the money you put aside your DC DLA? That may make a difference?

I meant in respect of the fact you save it towards things he needs like therapy reports etc.

It's their money for their disability and being saved for them and things they need but you just have the responsibility as the parent.

I have not put it aside but perhaps it can be counted towards in my normal current account as unspent? Not sure :(

But you've put money in an account for him. It may have come from your current account but the money is his. So in effect any savings you out in his name can be argued it's his money - from his DLA.

@anxiousship I'm just confused about the £14,000 you need - are you planning on saving this yourself or using some of the Young Saver? Your comment about not taking it out as you want to have £14k available confused me.

I work for the DWP, you are not going to prison or getting a criminal record.

I have explained it a bit earlier, no I was not planning to use it, but even though I have an access to it. Mortgage advisor said not to run any “dodgy” transcactions. With my savings of £10k and my salary when it just comes in (before the rent) it would have been enough in a month or so.
which means that especially if the child’s account count I am over the 10k I have declared so still underpaid so still am in trouble.

I really hope so, thank you for your reply.

Hi ladies
me again, just wanted to let you know that after reading the DWP rules ( will attach) I started thinking that as per many of you I might not have made the mistake in not declaring my son’s account and I went to the bank where the manager was helpful and written me a letter basically saying “I confirm that the account young saver xxx was opened on xxx and is for your child xx”
I have posted the clarification of that in my UC journal about it twice, on 26th Dec and on 30 Dec which gave UC at least 3 working days to reply but they just ignored.
My appointment with them is on Friday where I need to bring all the bank statements and I am now thinking should I just change the circumstances and remove that young saver account from my claim ( not sure if it possible) or do I just go to the appointment ( I would have gone anyway) and explain that again.
I still need them to check for overpayments in my current account because in some months it was over the 10k savings I declared but below 16k savings if the Young Saver is disregarded which means that I would still need to give money back ( which I will of course do) but it would be pennies in comparison to giving back ALL ( if the young saver account is not disregarded).
I am also thinking to ask to close my claim straight away during the appointment while they recalculate everything and make decision because it gives me so much anxiety now and I do not want to be overpaid anymore and to be honest I just don’t want it at all now as it honestly made me a psycho. In February, all going well, I will get a bonus of 2k with my salary from my employer which then would put me over 16k straight away before the bills and rents comes out and off it is just too stressful to understand when it will go above and below the 16k going forward.
I’ll survive without the UC but I can’t completely kill my mental health due to it as my child needs me and I feel awful of being so miserable all these days and my child is special needs and even though I try not to show it much they still feed of my energy and I can see they are not themselves too.

My friends’ husband actually works for UC but he is in Kent and he told me it is very much of up to the advisor who will see you, some are nice and some are proper terror, so obviously I am scared. He told me that the mistake I have made is that I panicked and even told them that I have this account as they would never find out ( not helpful as I better come clean if I am wrong and not commit the intentional fraud).

I have lost sleep completely due to stress ( sorry for self pity).
Many thanks again for all of your kind comments, you have no idea how much I value it.

Happy New Year to you all too x

Don't close your claim!

If your savings go briefly over £16k, so long as they're back under (due to reasonable spending, not blowing it on gold bullion or something ridiculous) by the end of your assessment period then there's no need to tell anyone. You only need to report the capital you have on the last day of your assessment period.

Hello again, thanks for the advice.
what is the last day of assessment please?

What do you think of the “young saver’s” account’s explanation? Will they disregard this?

So for UC everyone has their own assessment period - it will tell you on your statement what yours is.

This. I think a child was allowed £3000 in this sort of account under past rules.

It's 7 days before your payment date.

Have not seen rules around it, but it is more than 3k in my child’s one :(

The 16k capital limit does not include: earnings, benefits such as DLA, child benefit, PIP and a few more. So when the DWP calculate your capital they subtract this income (but not UC payments). So your actual capital could well be under 16k.

I made a mistake on my tax return (or was it the accountants fault- I'm not really sure.) But once I realised I panicked and reported it. They sent me a bill which was about £1900 and I paid it back monthly over a year. I reported it to work as well because of the job I do.
No one was interested. I didn't get into trouble.
It's similar to your case because 1. No one caught me. I realised, reported it and rectified.

1. It wasn't deliberate. The chances are no one would have ever realised but I knew so had to report it.

It's never been mentioned again.

You won't be sent to prison.
Also, with your child's savings go into the bank and talk to them about options where you wouldn't be able to access them so would be fine with universal credit.

It will be fine.

Thanks for your reply. Is this on a monthly basis? Let’s say if my child’s DLA is £500 a month is it deducted from that month only? Or is it deducted as accumulation through years?

Thanks for your reply. If they will count the young saver’s account then I would need them to give back probably more than 20k throughout the years, so it is way more…
I do have a letter from the bank stating the young savers account is my son’s, for now it is too late to think about other options as my appointment is tomorrow :(

Let’s say if my child’s DLA is £500 a month is it deducted from that month only? Or is it deducted as accumulation through years?

It's deducted that month, the reasoning is that it's an allowance toward daily living costs that is spent and not really meant to be accumulated/saved up

I see, thank you. Still puts me in a pickle then :(

read the regulations H107 regarding childs capital,it doesnt matter whos name it is in,its benefeciary that counts,all bank statements will go to the decision maker and hopefully disregarded,so much misinformation out there,some staff dont have enough training at UC

Yes, thank you. I am also hoping that H107 and H108 will be known to them and they will disregard this. And if not, then I just hope it will be a fine and a massive loan to give back.