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My inheritance situation - is one of us going to get screwed over?

66 replies

Wholeboxoftissues · 22/12/2024 14:36

My dad has just changed his will and it sounds reasonable on the surface but I'm worried there might be pitfalls...
My dad owns two houses - my childhood home which he lives in with my mum, and another house which he inherited and my sister lives in it for a low rate of rent. The two houses are roughly equal value. I don't think my mum's name is on either house.
Years ago his will said that both houses would be left to me and my sister equally, and if my sister wanted to continue living in that house then she would have to pay me rent for my half or she would have to buy me out.
He has now changed the will to simplify things, as my sister has lived there so many years it is very much her home now. The house my sister lives in will now be inherited by her alone, and my childhood home will be inherited by me alone.
The arrangement with my mum is that if my dad dies first then I have to allow her to continue living in the house, she herself doesn't inherit it.
I don't know anything about inheritance tax or the rules about selling your home to pay for care. Is there anything about this arrangement that is dodgy and is going to bite either me or my sister in the arse years down the line?

OP posts:
Mrsttcno1 · 22/12/2024 18:41

I’d be concerned about him separating off all of his assets like this to people to be honest because (unless he has sufficient cash/other assets, or one/all of you have the cash) at least one of these properties are going to have to be sold to pay Inheritance Tax which puts you all in the difficult position of deciding who has to give it up.

nodramaplz · 22/12/2024 19:12

You're getting a house you haven't put a penny into.
Your sister is getting a house she's paid rent on for years and years.

Lochroy · 22/12/2024 19:23

A lot of these well intentioned replies are in correct or making assumptions which might be wrong. You need to seek proper professional advice.

recyclingisaPITA · 22/12/2024 21:58

Mrsttcno1 · 22/12/2024 18:41

I’d be concerned about him separating off all of his assets like this to people to be honest because (unless he has sufficient cash/other assets, or one/all of you have the cash) at least one of these properties are going to have to be sold to pay Inheritance Tax which puts you all in the difficult position of deciding who has to give it up.

100% this. He's creating a future shit storm OP. Nothing causes family rifts like perceived unfairness in inheritance.

If he isn't an arsehole who's going to be enjoying laughing up from hell at you all squabbling and potentially seeing you inherit nothing at all OP, then he would do better to leave people a percentage of his estate. That way it doesn't matter how much is left when he dies because a percentage doesn't change regardless of the value of the estate.

Then everything gets sold, the inheritance tax is paid from the whole and the percentage divvied up according to the will.

If you don't want to be left a house with someone having a lifetime interest in it (and bear in mind your DM could remarry a total dickhead who trashes the place or develop dementia and burn it down accidentally, although at least insurance would pay for that second one), then perhaps he should just leave the house to DM and if it gets spent on care fees so be it. You'd have had your percentage of the inheritance from DF already. So anything DM left you would be a bonus.

If he hasn't made provision for DM living costs then she could downsize, invest the capital and use the interest from that to supplement her state pension. She'd also have access to the capital to spend in an emergency, like if she's living in a block of flats and the management company decides it needs re-roofing she'd just get an invoice for her share. Small flats are doable on a state pension, although it would be tight depending on what the monthly management fees were. Not a retirement flat, she won't be able to afford the fees on that on a state pension, just a regular flat. Or downsize to a small 2bed terrace, invest the leftover equity as before and get a lodger for the other room too, to top up the state pension. More council tax and heating costs but the lodger will offset that. You'd have to ensure you charged enough to take into account the extra utility bills from an extra person.

Lodger's have few rights so evicting a bad one or when you need to sell up is easy, no court proceedings, just one week's notice and change the locks. Don't put a lock on their bedroom door though, that's fundamentally against being a lodger and could stray into tenancy territory. Your mum could have a lock on hers because it's her house so it's ok for her to lock people out of part of it.

He also owns a narrow boat, which he is leaving to another cousin.

Which would end up sold for inheritance tax, no doubt.

He owns a third house, which he bought years ago for a distant cousin to help her out. He says there is large mortgage on this house and not much equity, and he is leaving this house to her.

She'd get the equity. Unless there's some life insurance to pay off the mortgage if he dies. Until that mortgage is paid, it's not his house, it's the banks. They'd sell it if they repossessed it (do they do that when someone dies?) or the executors would have to sell it, to recoup the banks losses. If it's repossessed I'm not sure cousin would get anything at all. If executors sold it bank would be paid and cousin would get the equity, minus selling expenses. You can't transfer a mortgage, so cousin staying put and paying mortgage isn't an option (I'm assuming this mortgage is in DF name). She'd have to get her own mortgage (sounds like it won't be a possibility, else she'd have done that in the first place) to remain living there, effectively she'd buy the house from DF estate. Or the house is sold, she takes her equity and moves out.

BigLooser · 23/12/2024 03:20

I am feeling very uncomfortable reading about the situation where your DM has been married to your DF for decades but somehow does not own any assets and looks like she may be left at the mercy of her children if she were to outlive her husband. He owns 3 houses, a boat and he is not intending on leaving at least one of those to his actual wife? How did that happen that she is not on the deeds of at least the family home?

I wonder if she happens to get legal advice about divorcing your DF while he is still alive and walking away with half of the marital assets. It would serve him - and frankly, all of you lot, who appear to have no qualms about the set-up - right.

recyclingisaPITA · 23/12/2024 04:14

Biglooser she won't be at DC mercy if she's left a lifetime interest, it's a legal thing meaning she can't be kicked out. It does however, restrict her freedom. If she finds she can't afford the utilities in a big house, she can't sell it and downsize, she'd have to take a job or rent out a room or rely of DC to subsidize her. Of she wants to live in another area eg closer to a much loved sibling, she can't sell up and move there.

DM could be on board with it all though, lots of people with money are hell bent on leaving an inheritance, quite grabby people in general and having to pay for their own care would make them extremely angry. So they cook up these schemes to leave property to their DC to get around that. Doesn't make much sense to me but then I'm not obsessed with not spending any money, like some are.

westisbest1982 · 23/12/2024 06:48

Could it be that the DM is perfectly fine with the current set up of having no assets of her own? I think that’s very likely, if it’s the case that it’s all been done to avoid potential care home fees for her, and her children are the ones who financially benefit.

Wholeboxoftissues · 23/12/2024 07:52

Okay I think my biggest question to my dad is how is my mum getting provided for if he dies first. I took it for granted before this thread but I need to establish what's going on with that. There's no way she was involved in drawing up his will and may not have full understanding of what's in there. The two of them conduct their affairs pretty separately.
I'm also struggling to understand how inheritance tax actually works and I can't find answers online. So apparently the executor is the one who pays the inheritance tax, and property can be sold to pay it. But if there are multiple properties getting inherited by multiple people, how do you decide which one has to sell their house to raise the money? I don't understand that at all. Do we decide between ourselves or what?

OP posts:
stayathomegardener · 23/12/2024 07:59

Sounds like a disaster op.

Soontobe60 · 23/12/2024 08:02

westisbest1982 · 22/12/2024 14:56

Is the house wholly his? If they own it as joint tenants and he dies first then it will automatically go to your mum and then she can leave it to whoever she likes.

Even if he’s the sole owner, as OP suspects, it doesn’t matter what it says in his will about the houses going to his daughters, the houses automatically go to his wife should he die before her. I think that’s right (going through a similar situation).

That’s not correct. If you live in England and the house is just in one name, then it is distributed under the terms of the will - so in this case would go to the OP.

Soontobe60 · 23/12/2024 08:12

Wholeboxoftissues · 23/12/2024 07:52

Okay I think my biggest question to my dad is how is my mum getting provided for if he dies first. I took it for granted before this thread but I need to establish what's going on with that. There's no way she was involved in drawing up his will and may not have full understanding of what's in there. The two of them conduct their affairs pretty separately.
I'm also struggling to understand how inheritance tax actually works and I can't find answers online. So apparently the executor is the one who pays the inheritance tax, and property can be sold to pay it. But if there are multiple properties getting inherited by multiple people, how do you decide which one has to sell their house to raise the money? I don't understand that at all. Do we decide between ourselves or what?

The executor decides what needs to be sold. So if your DF owns 4 properties, clearly the one where your DM lives shouldn't be sold, but any of the others can be. If I were the executor, first of all Id use any cash held to pay off any IHT, then Id sell the one that would sell the quickest if the cash wasn’t enough.
One thing he should consider - if he should need to go into a home whilst your DM is still alive, he would be self funding and one of his properties would have to be sold to pay his fees once his savings run out.
TBH, he sounds very financially controlling considering he owns all these properties and your DMs name isnt on any of them!

messybutfun · 23/12/2024 08:20

I really hope he has gifted the other assets otherwise this will end up a proper clusterfuck.

If everything is still in his name, firstly the mortgage will need to be paid off.

The remaining estate will pay 40% inheritance on anything above his allowance. If he leaves a life interest (mum can live in the house) he is leaving the property to a trust and this does not benefit from the residential nil rate band (has to go directly to a descendant).

In this scenario 40% IHT would be payable on anything above £325k. In just over 2 years time any unspent pension pots will also be included.

If he has had advice, this scenario seems unlikely to me.

mumda · 23/12/2024 08:20

nodramaplz · 22/12/2024 19:12

You're getting a house you haven't put a penny into.
Your sister is getting a house she's paid rent on for years and years.

Only one of them is getting something..the other has to wait and hope that various other things don't gobble it up.

Cheap rent is an amazing gift to give one child. Shitty deal for the other.

22mumsynet · 23/12/2024 08:28

Soontobe60 · 23/12/2024 08:12

The executor decides what needs to be sold. So if your DF owns 4 properties, clearly the one where your DM lives shouldn't be sold, but any of the others can be. If I were the executor, first of all Id use any cash held to pay off any IHT, then Id sell the one that would sell the quickest if the cash wasn’t enough.
One thing he should consider - if he should need to go into a home whilst your DM is still alive, he would be self funding and one of his properties would have to be sold to pay his fees once his savings run out.
TBH, he sounds very financially controlling considering he owns all these properties and your DMs name isnt on any of them!

This is wrong.
if they are specific gifts they they should be stated to be free of or subject to IHT. The default position is that the IHT is paid from the residue. Do you know how much other cash etc there is? What would fall into residue? If they are subject to IHT then the recipient would need to find the funds to pay it if they don’t want to property to be sold. If there is insufficient residue to pay the IHT then it would be pro rated between the properties and the recipients could have an opportunity to raise the IHT. With specific gifts the executor can’t just pick a property to sell to pay the IHT and then that person gets nothing whilst the others get their properties!
A competent solicitor should have discussed this with him. Were there a STEP qualified wills specialist solicitor? Not just a will writer? They are not the same in terms of qualification and regulation.
If you mum is not actually being left anything and isn’t joint owner - how and why does he think this is ok? She would have a valid claim under the Inheritance (provision for family and dependants) act 1975. Again a competent solicitor would have told him this.
it sounds like either you don’t have the full story or he has not seen a competent solicitor!

MollyButton · 23/12/2024 08:44

He needs to see a solicitor and financial advisor FAST. There is going to be IHT.
I suspect it would be better to give the properties away now - I don't know if capital gains tax would be involved. But otherwise unless he has substantial cash reserves, something is going to have to be sold for the IHT.

ThereIsALifeOutThere · 23/12/2024 08:51

A really big question is what is your mum supposed to live on if he dies first?

I’d ask him the question really straight: do you think you can live comfortably enough just on a state pension?

But as a PP pointed out, there seems to be a pattern where ‘finances are separate’ and your mum is left with nothing. If he has been like that all his life, I doubt he is going to care what’s going to happen after he dies 😢😢
(fwiw I have a father that thinks very much along those lines)

ThereIsALifeOutThere · 23/12/2024 08:52

Btw, I think it’s not your dad that needs to see a financial advisor asap.
It’s you, your sister and most importantly your mum.

CraverSpud · 23/12/2024 08:57

Does your Dad hate his wife?
I may be wrong but surely she has a right to be considered.
In most situations she would be sole beneficiary?

custardpyjamas · 23/12/2024 08:58

Wholeboxoftissues · 23/12/2024 07:52

Okay I think my biggest question to my dad is how is my mum getting provided for if he dies first. I took it for granted before this thread but I need to establish what's going on with that. There's no way she was involved in drawing up his will and may not have full understanding of what's in there. The two of them conduct their affairs pretty separately.
I'm also struggling to understand how inheritance tax actually works and I can't find answers online. So apparently the executor is the one who pays the inheritance tax, and property can be sold to pay it. But if there are multiple properties getting inherited by multiple people, how do you decide which one has to sell their house to raise the money? I don't understand that at all. Do we decide between ourselves or what?

The big question is how much cash is there in the estate, I think that would be used first to settle IHT, which might not be good for DM if that was to be her share. I would assume then the % needed m each part of the inheritance would have to be paid by the beneficiaries and if they couldn't pay it out of their funds the property would be sold to pay it and they would get what was left.

Moonchildalltheway · 23/12/2024 08:59

I would be more concerned that your dad has all these assets yet you mum has not been named on any of them. He is effectively leaving your mum with nothing. Sounds like a gem!!

Dressingdown1 · 23/12/2024 09:00

It sounds as though your father's will is making your mother a settled land act life tenant. There are specific rules governing this and you would be wise to check them.out so that you understand what this will mean in practice. I suggest you get some legal advice, once you know exactly what the will says. At the moment we are all trying to guess with no real information

MillicentFaucet · 23/12/2024 09:14

I have to assume he's made provision of some kind for her considering she has no assets or money or even a private pension of her own. But then who knows??

This is very concerning, is your mum aware of how precarious her situation is? I'd be focusing on this before anything else OP, the magnanimous dishing out of property to cousins feels 'off' unless your mum is provided for adequately first.

Nannyfannybanny · 23/12/2024 09:30

What a mess. I had a ccj when my second DH bought our local authority property (first H had remortgaged by forging my signature and house was sold with negative equity) I wasn't allowed to have my name on the mortgage documents or title deeds. The time lapsed on the ccj,we moved and were incorrectly informed by our solicitor,that you couldn't sell a house in one name and buy in 2 names. We weren't married then,there was no will (long story, severe phobias) I was in a very vulnerable position. So, you couldn't even trust the solicitor to get things right.We did marry. My father left his property to me and step children, wife has lifetime "interest". He did leave me a little Money,a lot of friends said it should have been more, but guess what,he suddenly died within the magic 7 years..

Nannyfannybanny · 23/12/2024 09:32

My late fathers will stipulated that his widow could move and live where she wanted and yes us 3 "children" are responsible for maintaining and repairing

Semiramide · 23/12/2024 09:45

@Wholeboxoftissues - a lot of potentially useful information on this thread, but I think you will find it difficult to determine what is actually legally correct versus well-meaning speculation.

Did your father have this will drawn up by a competent solicitor? I very much doubt it as it seems a mess.

You really need to see a solicitor about this. Ideally take a copy of the current will and a list of all your dad's assets.