Paying carers after death

[broyo]

I have been working (as part of a small team) as a self employed carer for over a year for an elderly lady. Privately funded. Unfortunately she has now passed away and her family have said nobody will get paid until the estate has gone through probate which could take around 5 months. Is this correct!? Nobody had a contract. This has come as a bit of a shock. I would have thought the family who dealt with the wages would have been prepared for this.

I'm assuming they legally can't? As soon as the death is registered, the accounts are frozen for the executors of the estate to deal with.

If they don’t pay you, you can sue the estate for modern slavery as you don’t have contracts. I suggest you seek legal advice as a group or speak to CAB / your union for more info. It’s in their best interest to settle your wages quickly.

Self employed so you were invoicing? You are allowed to charge 8% + Bank of England interest rate on overdue invoices. Submit a new invoice with the interest.

Funeral directors and other key expenses can get paid via the deceased’s bank before probate, it may be worth mentioning that to the family? When I was in a similar position for my dad, I made damn sure the carers got paid before I even registered the death or notified the bank, but I did have LPA so was organising payments before he died. The family should be bending over backwards to make sure the people who cared for their loved one are not out of pocket for a moment.

Yes I sent an invoice at the end of each month.

My DH recently was the executor of an estate. He was able to access the accounts almost immediately, even before probate was granted. I would push back on this.

Probate is granted after all debts have been settled so no, the debt due to you must be paid before probate can get granted. I guess you will need to make your claim to the executors.

Unfortunately now the lady is dead payments cannot be made from her bank account until Probate is granted.

Was no inheritance tax due? If IHT is due, it's extremely unusual to be allowed to access accounts until probate is granted.

OP, technically the family is correct. There is an order in which executors must pay off debts - funeral expenses, taxes, creditors and outstanding debts and then beneficiaries. Debts are not paid before probate, unless the exector takes out a loan or pays out of their own pocket. (The only exclusions are funeral expenses, which the deceased's bank will pay for directly, upon receipt of an invoice; and IHT which, again, the bank will pay directly.)

But how can probate be granted when debts (to OP) aren’t paid?

It's only IHT that has to be paid before probate is granted (and there are ways to access bank accounts for that purpose). Other debts have to wait.
It's the beneficiaries that can't be paid until all the debts are settled.
The executors maybe able to access bank accounts which have small amounts in. The limit depends on the bank but it's several thousand for most high street banks.

Don’t be ridiculous!

The only things that can be paid from a deceased estate before probate is funeral expenses and Inheritance Tax. Everyone else has to wait. Nobody should be using a deceased persons monies to pay anyone without probate.

This is incorrect.
OP, if probate is being applied for, all debts will be included. Once it is granted, all debts will be settled in a specific order. The Executors are acting correctly in this case - although they could choose to pay you out of their own pockets. I’m afraid there is nothing you can do to expediate this process.

Same when I did it, had access to my dads bank accounts immediately and just kept a note of everything that was paid out on behalf of him, newspaper bills, gardener etc

This is incorrect. You may need to include details of monies owing but it is only IHT that needs to be paid before probate is granted.

The family could pay you themselves and claim it back from the estate later. You could push them on this as it’s not morally fair to leave you out of pocket. Some banks will release as much as £50k without a grant of probate so they may be able to access funds in any event.

This is completely wrong and utter nonsense. It's not wages. She is not an employee. As a self employed person offering a service it would have been up to the OP to give a contract to the service user or their guardian outlining OPs terms and conditions of offering the service. Not the other way round.

I do agree that many families will want to make sure that their relative's care workers are not out of pocket. I knew someone who had even arranged for a payment to be made after her death (she had a terminal illness) because she knew her support workers would not have a salary until they found a new client. I know I sound cynical but I think it looks very bad to expect you to wait until probate has gone through. Have they actually checked if workers' pay could count as a priority debt?

It's really worth joining Unison or a local network just to see how other people have been treated in your position. There is also an organisation called the Care Workers Charity which can give grants if people have a financial emergency because the person they cared for died or went into hospital:

www.thecareworkerscharity.org.uk/

I know that in @broyo's case the person was a self funder but the situation is different for people on Direct Payments or personal budgets. Here the funder will pay any monies owed.

It just highlights the variation in care worker rights. I hope it's resolved soon.

You are right of course but there was no way I was going to let the carers be out of pocket! I obviously had agreed my actions with my father before he died. He would have come back to haunt me if those bills weren’t paid!

Probate is such a fucking useless process. It achieved absolutely nothing except delay.