Need Legal help interrpreting OFSTED rules/Childcare Act & possible infringement of the Disability Discrimination Act

[KatyMac]

NannyNick has referred to the Childcare Act (over here) and we need to know if they mean "at a time" or "altogether"

It's quite important

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Will have a look at it when I get a chance and will get back to you.....

Thank you

have posted my reply on another thread!!! doh!
am crap at links but it is under'legal' 'scottish divorce'.........

Hi, sorry am not really familiar with your childminding thread.....are you working out of your own home? how many are there of you and are you employing these other people or are they working for you (on a self-employed basis)?

wrt to the fact that your home cannot be used as a place of business, have you checked to see what your title sheet says? Normally there is a clause about this but you may be able to get round it.....

From first glance, the legislation seems to be saying 'altogether'....

"My mum is a CM (in Scotland) and she has another full-time CM working out of her premises but my mum 'rents space' (so to speak) so there is no issue there. My mum is registered with the Care Commission (Scottish equivelant) I think of OFSTED but I know that they keep her right wrt to legislation etc. The Care Commission are the same org who regulate private nursery provision in Scotland so if I were advising someone in Scotland re the legislation I would prob point them in the direction of them....

My mum did not have to register with the CC wrt to being a CM but I know she did it because she has marketed her business as a "nursery setting within a home environment"...although in saying that she does not have to follow 'nursery curriculum'.....hope this is making some sense..."

I copied & pasted

I am self employed - I employ the others the issue is whether more than 3 working together is at a time or all together - so if you think altogether we will have to close. I had to get permission from Planning department to run a business from home and they have told me they would not allow daycare (which i what we would be as a nursery) to occur in our house as it is for domestic purposes not for commercial

thanks for copying and pasting!!!

ok, I think your best bet would be to call either OFSTED or whoever regulates day care in England.

I read it as 'altogether' but I may be wrong!

I know you have spoken to planning wrt to this. Am not sure what the law in England is wrt this but did you have to speak to them from an insurance point of view? In Scotland the restrictions on using your place of residence as a business is usually included within your title sheet/land certificate? I am not sure what the position in England is wrt this...

sorry if have not been of much help.....

OFSTED (apparently) haven't decided yet

No in the UK the local council can decided whether you do or not

If they are placing restriction on us working as jobshares would that be discrimination as we job share because of out health problems?

Discrimination only really occurs if you are being targeted for something that no-one else is being targeted for iyswim.....if someone else was doing what you are doing then they should be liable to the same restrictions as you. However if someone else was doing the same as you and did not have health problems and were able to continue then this would be discrimination...........what you have to ask yourself is "am I being treated differently from anyone else who is in exactly the same situation as me?" if the answer is yes then it prob is discrimination.........

Trickey

We job share because we can't work F/T

But if only 3 C/Mers were to work together they would need to work 52.5 hrs a week to provide the same care that 6 (or so) of us provide

sorry, may have missed something but why can you not work full-time?

Cos we have health problems

ok, sorry! I doubt if this would be seen as discrimination tbh......am off to bed now but will give it some more thought....

Katym - Hi sorry haven't got back to you about the other list thingy you wanted- was hell at work then away on holiday so just getting head above water/paperwork!!

Re this dilemma-I would interpret it as being AT ANY ONE TIME. As I understand it from what you have said you only have 3 of you overlapping on any one shift (because health reasons stop any one of you being full time)

Surely it is no more than 3 full time carer hours whether part timers or Ft-ers ?? ie if one child minder does a 10 hour day then you can provide up to 30 hours childcover per day(within th usual ratios naturally) Now wether that's 3 bodies doing a long day or 6 doing it as shorter days to cover those hours is immaterial, IMHO -does that make sense??

Where does it say in the childrens Act you can't do this? Bottom line is the Childrens act is the legal requirement NOT OFSTED.

But to be on the safe side ring the OFSTED national helpline I have found them quite helpful.

Good luck!

Thanks

I thought because we were already working this way due to our health problems, that if they changed the rules so that we couldn't any more, that it would be discrimination

Never mind

Have they actually changed the rules Kaytm or is some different OFSTED officious bod interpreting them differently?

(sorry if you've said this already)

Or council official?

It's the "guidence to Registration of childcare providers from September 2008"

"Childcare on domestic premises
The definition of domestic premises remains as above. But if you provide childcare or work with three or more people on domestic premises after 1 September 2008 then the Childcare Act says that you are either an early or later years childcare provider or both: you are not a childminder.
Some examples of this are:

• a childminder who employs three or more assistants to work with them.
• three or fewer childminders who work on the same premises and employ assistants to help them which makes the number of persons who work together four

If you fall into this category you must meet the requirements for childcare providers rather than childminders. You should check the welfare requirements in the Statutory Framework for the Early Years Foundation Stage and the requirements for the Childcare Register to make sure you follow the ones for early or later years providers and not for childminders, as there are some differences. Your local authority can help you do this."

Oh booger......best get on that phone then.

I think you have a good case for asking them to consider you as an exception, given that you are all P/T-ers. Save the discimination angle till later.

You should have an early years development officer for your area?

try the lovely Marcelle - she'd know who your local one is!!

Chin up there WILL be a way round this!!

or one of this lot??

Go to get to bed now but catch up over the next few days.

Thanks Bossybritches

I spoke to our development workers on Monday & to NCMA & OFSTED & an OFSTED inspector & the network & Childminding Matters (I spent a lot of Monday on the phone )

Nightmare for you KatyM.

Got our info pack about the new registration today & I can see where your confusion lies-minefield of possible misunderstanding as everyone (council/local inspectors etc ) all inerpret it differently!!

I had to ring up the helpline to query something on our documentation & out of interest I put a hypothetical scenario like yours to her. She was very hekpful and said you would NOT have to re-register as a nusery they were just closing the loopholes for nannies etc. So as in the old days we had Creches (2hrs or less daily) sessional (less than four hours daily) etc they've now re-catagorized ALL the groups as CM groups such as yours are becoming more poplar. It would be classified as "daycare on a domestic premises" and therefore NOT a nursery which is on business premises like mine.However she DID say it seemed that some councils were taking it that it was therefore a business property. It seems it is more a Local authority thing . But interestingly she said they've had LOADS of queries from CM-ers so they are looking at the wording over the summer & producing a clearer guidance before registering anyone.

HTH-what did your phone calls come up with? let me guess more confusion???!

Wow - so I guess that means nothing definite doesn't it