Struggling to be overly sympathetic

[Worcswarrior]

Hi,

couple of minor details changed to avoid identifying anyone….

So my husbands brother and his wife have announced that they’re in financial dire straits. Between them they have racked up 60k in credit cards and loans. Dh’s family are rallying round but I’m struggling to understand everyone’s reaction. Here’s why…

She’s a headteacher and he runs a plumbing business. Their family home is worth about 500k and they owe 200k on this mortgage. They own two other rental properties each with around 100k of equity.

nobody wants 60k of debt but I don’t see the massive drama and outpouring of sympathy for a situation that was entirely self inflicted, but is also fairly easily fixed!!

am I being a bitch, ?

Well quite. The obvious starting point would be to sell at least one of the rental properties, but have they tried to do this? I expect that they see these as BILs pension due to him being self employed? So not to be touched if at all possible.

But it's also likely that they've sleepwalked into this situation as higher interest rates have caught up with them and the music has now stopped after years of robbing Peter to pay paul.

What do you mean by 'the family is rallying round'? If they're talking about giving them money, they'd be fools to do this as it's likely to just prolong the agony and any money given/lent will just go on interest until they've properly addressed their budget and finances.

What they need to do is sell at least one rental property but also have a big review of their budget and spending, otherwise it's quite likely they'll end up in a similar situation in a few years time and they'll need to look again at selling a property, which is obviously a risk because it's taking BILs pension and there's going to be a point when he can't or doesn't want to work.

But OTOH, if they can limp along to retirement age, which for SIL could be as early as 55/60 depending on how old she is, they're going to have her teacher's pension and eventually 2 state pensions and a half million pound house and any remaining rental properties, so it's hard to see how they're ever going to be 'poor' unless they're spending stupid money.

The only help anyone should give them is to help them with budgeting/point them towards Moneysaving Expert or similar for advice on getting out of debt and then staying out.

I agree, I'd struggle to work up any sympathy too. I'd love to know how they've racked up £60k of debt, but I suspect you can't say (if you know) in case it IDs them. I agree with the PP - they have assets and need to liquidate some of them to repay the debt(s). They also need to get free debt advice from National Debtline, StepChange or Citizens Advice so they don't get into this kind of mess again - it's inexplicable how a Head Teacher and (successful?) business owner can have this level of debt.

No. I can't feel sorry for anyone who's got into trouble having a grand time spending up on credit cards. If they're clued up enough to own and manage rental properties, they're clued up enough to understand how credit cards work.

It sounds like they're not in trouble though. They've just got to rearrange their finances by selling a property or two. They're just less well off than the imagined themselves to be.

I agree that they need to use their assets to pay the debt off, however I’m not massively Shocked they owe 60k between them. I expect that this is very easy if things such as cars snd expensive holidays are factored in!

I expect that there are a lot of individuals waking amongst us who owe 30k so it doesn’t really shock me at all tbh,

anyone can fall into debt so I’m not sure it’s fair to think that a headteacher couldn’t make the sane mistake?? We’re all just human aren’t we, and sometimes we fuck up!!

Of course anyone can fall into debt if they're on a very low income, or if they're on a high income but lose it, but there's no suggestion from the OP that this has happened. I think you misunderstood my comment about a "Head Teacher and a (successful?) businessman" falling into debt, which had nothing to do with their intelligence, but to do with their debt level v income - Head Teachers aren't paid peanuts (and I've never met a poor plumber either!).

Send them an Aldi leaflet and have a chuckle. People like them don't grasp what being fiscally challenged means....

So they haven't actually got any debts they are perfectly solvent. At worst they have a cash flow problem.

I think that they just fell into the but now pay later mentality!!!

No, they do have debt, but it's serviceable if they liquidate some assets. They certainly don't just have "a cash flow problem" because that would suggest they just need to wait until their next income amount comes in, but that clearly isn't going to be enough to service the debts.

@Worcswarrior so have they just spent money on stuff? The “rallying round” bit implies some kind of problem that led to it.

I wouldn’t be able to find much sympathy. We’re all human though, I suppose it’s just a case of where our weaknesses are. I seem to be getting more sympathetic about this stuff as I get older.

I would rally round, too.

I would hand them a cup of tea and say “oh, what a shock, but thank goodness you have rental properties to sell.”

If further rallying needed I might give them another cup of tea. With biscuit 🍪

I can’t believe they’ve told all the family about it. I’d be embarrassed & want to deal with it privately. Very strange behaviour. Are they hoping the family will bail them out?

What does the rallying around consist of?

Some sympathy and a general understanding that things need to change, they don’t have loads of disposable income anymore so it will be camping holidays and secret Santa at Christmas

Or actual cash from family members?

The first I could get on board with (still judging internally), the second - no I’d certainly not be giving anything and I’d probably struggle not to suggest they sell the spare house or whatever.

But then I’m the responsible one with a sibling that’s frequently bailed out by my parents. I’ve learned to just ignore it to be honest or I’d lose my mind. I’d hate to be asking for money so I prefer my life

I'd make sympathetic noises. Any rallying round would not be financial, however.

I certainly wouldn't feel the need to feel worried about their financial stability. They've huge assets they can easily sell.
Is think it was not a good reflection on them that they owned so much but then again it's not your direct concern. But definitely don't lend them any money! But if they're needing moral support or friendship then I'd happily be there in that regard within reason.

That was my thinking. They have some debts but these are exceeded by their assets so they just need to realise some assets then be more careful with their spending. It's barely a problem, unless they can't work out how to live within their income.

I'd have very little sympathy if the £60k has been spent on holidays, designer things for the house and just unnecessary bling in general. My sympathy would stretch to a cuppa and a chat about better money management. But no way would I be sending them any money myself.