Working cash in hand

[NoName543210]

I currently have a small job which pays about £5000 per year. I am on the payroll for this, get proper payslips etc.

My neighbour is a self-employed cleaner and has increasing demand. She's offered me 5 hours per week cash in hand - so I would invoice her at the end of each month. This could work out at about £3500 per year, taking my total earnings to £8000-£9000.

Since this is clearly below the tax threshold, would it be ok to do this without involving HMRC or registering anywhere? I just don't see the need if I wouldn't be paying tax anyway. I'm not entitled to any benefits either (due to my savings + DH's income) so that's not a factor.

Any advice much appreciated!

Presumably I'm now going to have to go back about 10 years and do all the forms I should have done before, too... And pay more fines than what I've actually earned! Honestly in such a panic about this

Self assessment is actually a very good way of checking you are not overpaying or underpaying both tax and NI. It amazes me how many people just assume their employer and banks are getting it right.

I’m not sure I think you can only submit the last 4 years if you haven’t being doing it. You may not get a fine if you’ve always been under the tax threshold. I think in your position I would get some independent advice from citizens advice or an accountant. Probably not a good idea to bury your head in the sand about this though.

Even with all your other little surveys etc it all still comes out under the tax threshold.

I'm going against the grain, and saying no way on this earth would I be declaring it.

The HMRC are not fair or easy to deal with - my other half is self employed and definitely needs his accountant to help with HMRC as every single year; the goal posts change on what the rules are. When you owe them money - you have to pay with interest and penalty fees - but when they owe you money? Well, it's a different story then. They can stall and stall, and pass you from pillar to post - he was finally 'awarded' his tax refund (that they had calculated and told him about) 10 months after the initial letter.

@Bestyearever2024 you seem very knowledgeable. What is your job and do you fill out a tax return every year?

It's not kind to laugh and scoff at people when they are seeking advice.

Not far off as she’s given £1000 of her tax free allowance to her husband.

It's not up to the "employer" to decide that a worker is self employed or employed. HMRC are pretty strict. If the OP is just providing labour a few hours per week doing cleaning for just one person, she ISN'T self employed and IS an employee and the employer should be registering for PAYE, declaring the wages and deducted tax/NIC as per payroll rules. To be self employed, the OP would need to be working as a cleaner for other people, providing their own equipment and materials, etc. You can't "self declare" you're self employed just because you're doing casual/odd jobs. Being "self employed" means being in business!

I've just done the "do I need to file a self-assessment form" questionnaire on the Gov website and now I'm even more confused! You can say that you're an "off-roll" employee rather than being self-employed. If I check that then it says I don't need to do a form. Reading the criteria for self-employed, I'd say the off-roll employee is a more fitting description?

I also don't understand how savings interest fits in either. Some sources say about it coming under the personal threshold if you earn less than £12,000ish, yet others say about earning over £1000 in interest... I really don't understand at all.

Your not/wouldn’t be an off roll employee though? You can’t just say you are because you think it fits better or allows you not to fill in a tax return. Seriously if you don’t understand these things get some proper advice!

Even if I considered myself "self-employed" due to the leaflets + survey sites, since that income is less than £1000 I wouldn't have needed to do a self assessment? And the savings interest wouldn't have tipped me over either, as that income didn't come from my "self-employed earnings" but could instead count as part of my personal allowance?

Surely if I were to take up the cleaning work then my neighbour would be the intermediary?

so how come what seems like the very real need for 5 hours cleaning?

and why on earth are you embarrassed about having decent savings 🫤

We're not a high income household and like to keep the savings as a safety net. Most of our friends and family would be very surprised to know how much we've got saved!

given you have very very substantial savings, surely you have a financial advisor…. just ask him/her 🤷

have you accumulated the savings from income?

I'm not, really, but I don't like to discuss my savings as it sounds boastful

Inheritance

not at all

but if 5 hours cleaning really is important to the family income… maybe ease up on the savings a fraction?

ok so you have a IFA presumably?

No! I didn't think I needed one. I'm even more clueless than I thought!

oh dear op

so this vast sum of money is sitting… where?

is your husband any help?

Split across different savings accounts (most in an ISA)
It's "only" £40k so not hundreds of thousands though! Perhaps I've made it sound more than it is.

DH is even more clueless than me unfortunately!

do you own your property? i vaguely recall a recent thread that sounds like your situation