Universal Credit Fraud

[shockjockingtruth]

I'm aware of someone (not me!!) who has claimed UC for 3 years whilst having in excess of £30k savings. The threshold is £16k savings for UC. I think they receive @ £800 per month.

They definitely know they should not be claiming.

What proportion of fraud cases like this do DWP discover without being tipped off? Is it just random checks?

Also what is the likely punishment? I have read charts which give starting point suggestions eg custodial sentence and fine but I wondered in reality what the most likely outcome is.

How do you know how much savings they have and how much in benefits they are receiving?

DWP have data matched with other agencies for years. If someone is claiming means tested benefits and has savings over the limit, chances are it will eventually come up on one of the data matches. If it's enough to be considered for a fraud investigation then they can legally access bank accounts without the holders permission.

The DWP are reviewing all UC cases at the moment so she will probably be caught. She will be made to repay every penny of UC she has been paid since her savings went over £16k and may be prosecuted or just given a civil penalty of £50. A quick calculation makes that £28,850.

If she'd lived off the £30k for a while then claimed benefits when she'd got to £16k, she'd have still got £626/month (they deduct £4.35 for every £250 between £6k and £16k) and would have got to keep £16k, now she will lose the lot and may be prosecuted.

Unless she's hidden it really well of course...

From what I've heard the most likely outcome if she owns up to it when caught and repays it all is the £50 civil penalty.

@BobbyBiscuits yes I would be absolutely shitting myself.

I don't think many people who commit this offence would be able to predict this particular scenario in which she has had to disclose her financial information.

@user1474127873 what do you mean by data matching?

@BalmyLemons thanks for that. Do you work for DWP? What makes you lean towards £50. I thought this amount of fraud would warrant prosecution. You are right she should have spent the savings on the holidays first. She would have got similar returns/edperiences without having to break the law.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX there are also tax evasion dobbing in lines.

Is it not possible to frown at both tax evasion and benefit fraud? I seem to manage not to do either despite being self employed and as such probably have more opportunities to do both than if employed. There's enough stress in life without adding in fraud.

How do they know which banks to ask though? I have savings across 3 different banks so they'd never find anything exciting just by looking at my current account bank iyswim (just to be clear I don't actually claim uc)

Just report them, gotta fill that £22 billion hole. Benefit fraud and overpayment last year cost £8.6 billion.

@shockjockingtruth they cross match data from their system against data from other Government departments

I’d call and report her, don’t wait for DWP to catch up with her, if they ever do, People saying ‘it’s none of your business’ are being disingenuous because benefit fraud is very obviously ALL our business. She’s scum.

Report them if you like. Greedy fraudsters.

@westisbest1982 the thing is she is not the struggling, poor woman facing hardship as many on here may be imagining. She probably matches every criteria of the average assumption made of the classic Boden mumsnet mum. 4 foreign holidays so far and working p/t is sickening. I don't know if my conscience could bring me to report her. What if she became suicidal?

@user1474127873 thanks for that. I don't think she would be on any other government data base which would require savings information. Plus if she was I imagine that if she lies on one form she would lie on them all.

Sickening is the right word. Also, her mental health isn’t your responsibility.

Nope, they'd just relocate abroad and then UK would get nothing from them at all.

You aren't the lady who received £30k from her mum, who part owns a house whilst not living in it but claims UC as well?

jyfvjy · Yesterday 21:17
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I've heard they do random checks sometimes where they ask for your bank statements so could find out through that i suppose”

I’m surprised this isn’t standard with every application. The DWP just relies on people to be truthful? Blimey.

@IVFmumoftwo no. The last time I claimed benefit was child benefit until it became means tested and I didn't qualify.

@westisbest1982 I have a role with her children. I do care about them even though she has been outrageously reckless and I do understand it is her responsibility. I do teeter on the edge of reporting but would prefer if she was caught organically.

It depends how that savings were acquired. If it's a payout for an injury or compensation for something it does not count toward savings for benefits.

Mind your own business? it is OP's business if she's taxpayer

There is so much on this thread that is incorrect.
The DWP regularly data match with HMRC for those claiming means tested benefits with savings accounts.
If any potential overpayment is likely to he less than £2k it will be dealt with by compliance and they will be asked to provide bank statements. There is a penalty of £50 if overpaid

If any potential overpayment is more than £2k it will be forwarded to investigations who can demand statements direct from all the banks known
If and when an overpayment is raised and if it is over £2k the case can be passed to CPS for prosecution.

Whenever you apply for any benefits you declare everything is correct anc give consent to DWP to access your information( I'm on other benefits but claiming is the same)
They do random checks where she may be caught but I hesitate to say this, I would report her.
If she has 30k in savings, they're not going to starve while DWP investigates are they?!
I'm on lifelong disability benefits myself and have £0 savings so she really is taking the piss.

I recently had a review myself and was worried as on occasion my bank accounts did have slightly more than £6k in them after my wages go in but before my credit card bill comes out, so I went looking online for advice. This was fine as UC is paid in arrears so I was never anywhere near.

They asked to see the last 4 months of statements for every account I had. Current accounts, savings accounts, paypal, premium bonds... They want to see all activity for the period. From what I heard from others, if they had spotted anything suspicious they would have asked for statements for all accounts for the entire length of my claim. The review could not be signed off until all were sent, even accounts with no activity at all (paypal). I do not know what could have happened if I'd lied because I didn't!

The general advice when these things came up was to admit it and pay up and then they tend not to prosecute. I did not see any instance where had been over the savings limit for that long though. I do wonder if they are holding off prosecutions until everyone has been moved onto UC as there was no savings limit on Tax Credits. Although if she is not working then the limit does apply and she would be more likely to be prosecuted I should think.