How will you look to mitigate Labour’s tax hikes? (Part deux)

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

How will you look to reduce the impact of Labour’s seemingly endless (imminent) tax hikes?

Surely if you are tax resident in another country even if temporarily you do not pay UK CGT tax either? So if you have to sell assets and you are rich, you move to Dubai for a few years?

A trifle naive.

Tax people too much, and they either reduce their fiscal exposure, or they leave.
There are limits - I suspect I will reach mine on the 30th October.

Simples.

Its called non-residency, and you have to sever links with the UK during that period, and adhere to 90 days per annum in the UK (or one year in four, max 180 days) as it used to be. Income derived in the UK continues to be taxed in the UK, although rental income falls under the NRL scheme. I think CGT remains flat.

I have a question for you how do you suggest we fix austerity because it's quite clear that you don't want more tax? You also don't want public sector people paid more but pay is one of the ways that we can fix peoples living standards? So do you think only people in the private sector should be paid fairly. I'm not coming at this from goady perspective either. I'm genuinely interested to hear how you would fix austerity and ensure that everyone has housing at a fair price. And that children aren't in poverty and that people have decent living standards.
Unless of course you want a society with increasing rates of poverty and you want more austerity.

What I don't understand (at all) is why absent parents aren't made to pay for their children.

At the monent maintenance isn't taken into account in benefits payments as apparently it isn't reliable enough.

So there are single parents on benefits and with free school meals who are actually perfectly well off because the absent parent (as they should) has been paying for their children.

Surely the fastest way to raise money would be to assess both parents income before paying any benefits. To account for feckless parents and ensure children weren't losing out the government could pay if needed and recoup the money later.

If CGT is linked to UK income tax rate, take a year sabbatical if you need to sell all your assets? And they are in excess of what you would earn that year?

I am sorry, but there will always be ways around CGT and IHT for the rich so I don’t understand the panic.

No, people should be required to work smarter, not harder or longer, we lack efficiency in the UK, where we already work longer hours than almost any other European country, yet have lower wages, higher housing costs and poor productivity.

People have had wage freezes and cuts over the last 14 years, they've seen real terms losses, its unreasonable to expect them to keep accepting more and more wage cuts.
Meanwhile Ministers MPs and company Directors pocket above inflation pay rises year after year.

Yes, either on this thread or another, i've said the NI cuts should be reversed and Hunt held to account to why he has damaged the UK by having them.

It’s a fair question, and I do not see it as provocative.

Both public and private sector employees should be paid ‘fairly’. I am a material risk taker - I goof or I lose money, I lose my job i.e. I dont have the protections offered by the public sector. For that risk, I am paid highly by any measure. I have private health, I use private education and have never claimed from the state (that I recall). I pay a significant amount of tax - which is at a post-war high.
If you take more from me (and others like me), I will relocate.

I am all for protecting the most vulnerable in our society and I am happy to pay my share.

I object to Labour singling me out (so it seems), and tax every aspect of my life, without offering me much in return.

Reducing the welfare bill is a must - managing pay settlements is another. Unskilled immigration may be another issue (I dont have the numbers).

I suspect there are a number of individuals who dont have any meaningful work ethic, and these need to be compelled to work (and pay tax).

Labours messaging is weak on cost management.

BTW dont get me started on the Tories.

Because the direction of travel is clear.

This is the first budget.

You still haven't answered my question by the way how do we reverse 14 years of austerity?

A lot of people feel very hopeless in the UK and I think everyone is a bit tired fed up and possibly burnt out. We can't afford decent housing people are stuck in flat shares in big cities well into their 30s, bad housing really impacts peoples mental health if you're coming home to a mouldy and damp home you're going to be sick and your mental health is going to be pretty bad therefore you might not be as productive at work unlike if you had a safe and secure home. We can't just sit here and theorise and say people need to be more productive and work more and all of this stuff without recognising the material conditions in which we all live in because of the impact of austerity and the impact its had on productivity rates and peoples general morale.

It's really crazy to just think that if you make people work more than everything is going to be solved. There's deep rooted issues as to why people are so fed up in this country

OK @EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime - so if everyone pays more tax and everyone pays IHT and you do not feel like the only one paying for everyone else, will you stay?

@MotherOfRatios - I think the rich high earners are fed up too though and they do have the highest burden and they are mobile, so taxing them 45% and then 40% when they die and left right and centre is not going to make things better for the rest of us.

Austerity is one thing, Brexit and cost of food price rises and the mismanagement by successive governments of the housing situation, is a separate matter.
We need a housing plan like eg Singapore without the exploitation of workers. Our housing is old, energy inefficient, depleted, too expensive, the list goes on and on.

Tbf it's been a while with this type of gov since Blair didn't really do the pain thing nor 'broadest shoulders'

Admittedly they just road an upwards wave which then crashed which cost a huge amount, but behaviourally and politically we are in a new place which we haven't seen for a while

The key imo is whether it causes changes in behaviour which limits growth and ends up with a cycle of tax rises, even income tax. Basically people have a limit and will try to opt out

I guess we'll see how it goes

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I think people would be happy to pay more tax like the European model if we actually got to see the benefit of it but we've had so much austerity that is going to take a long time to fix the issues.

I do think we need to start taxing unearned wealth at the same rate we do PAYE why is it that you could be getting an income from an asset but not be taxed the same as a job that's unfair in my opinion. Tax the likes of the dukes of Westminster properly!

The answer is clearly complex and not resolvable in this box.

What I can tell you however is this - taxing the HNW and above and beyond comparable tax jurisdictions, at the same time as sending them the message ‘we hate you’, will result in them leaving en masse.

The UK is second only to China in respect of the exodus of millionaires (which covers some of the seriously wealthy).

This I do know.

@MotherOfRatios People are fed up because day after day they see the rich getting even wealthier whilst they are working hard to stay poor.

Then when they need the NHS it isn't there for them, Dentistry isn't there for them or their kids, schools are crumbling and the roads smash up their cars they work hard to buy and there is nothing they can do about any of it..
Then what happens when they vote for change? Labour do SFA to stop energy prices going up whilst energy and oil companies make billions.

People no longer see the point in working hard and who can blame them?

But tax is an answer to this unfortunately the people who are significantly wealthy and I'm not talking about someone who is earning over £100k I'm talking about those landlords that they have 18 properties and don't have a job, but I'm not being taxed the same as a PAYE worker or multi millionaires they should have to pay a lot more tax. A fair society benefits everyone.

People are leaving for Dubai Cayman etc etc because they offer zero tax rates, no western country can compete with that.

They aren't leaving in their droves for France or Germany.

Funny how you aren't so concerned about the numbers of healthcare workers leaving for Aus and NZ.

Again, I think I made this clear in other posts I don't disagree with you. We have a deeply on there and unequal society in this country and yet more austerity is just going to widen that inequality and cause further issues.

This combination is more likely to backfire on the people who stay

I suspect there are a number of individuals who dont have any meaningful work ethic, and these need to be compelled to work

Would you personally hire any of these individuals with no work ethic? If not, who do you think is going to?

@MotherOfRatios “I do think we need to start taxing unearned wealth at the same rate we do PAYE why is it that you could be getting an income from an asset but not be taxed the same as a job that's unfair in my opinion.”

I get the principle but many of the rich stop working if they are overtaxed. I myself only work part time because I value time over money. I could work far more but it would result in loss of personal allowance, less time with my kids etc. People who can make these kind of choices every day at every level. The current taxation system already disincentivises work massively from those on benefits all the way to the top.

I think that even reversing Austerity/rising taxes will not change how people feel,its also not going to happen, Reeves and Starmer have ruled out real reform.
i'm very sad at some of the things Labour have said and done, i don't expect sweeping policy changes with no thought but in all honesty when i hear a Lab minister now, he she sounds exactly like a Tory one from 12 months ago.

Hold on a second, dont focus on the obvious to make your point.

Switzerland, Monaco, Italy (yes), Florida and Texas, and others.

With respect to healthcare, I’m not sure what you are getting at - ask yourself why they are leaving for Australia? A good friend of mine is a surgeon in Texas - I know why he left.