Feeling a bit lost

[knotthenot]

At university I managed my money badly, I had two huge over drafts of £1000 each and I worked part time and just about got by.

After university I was single, I lived with a friend in the city, I took charge of bills and never missed a payment, didn’t have a credit card, got out of my over drafts, but didn’t earn enough to save anything beyond that as my rent was so expensive.

I have been married for five years and during that time my husband has taken charge of setting up and paying bills, organising how much money goes into the joint account, sending me my money for the month, saving for holidays etc. He works in finance, keeps very detailed, complicated spreadsheets that I don’t find very easy to follow.

During my first maternity leave I got a credit card for the first time and ended up spending £1500 on it across 12 months. It was silly purchases like topping up food shops, petrol, baby clothes, nappies etc. my husband didn’t know that I’d spent so much on it, and we had tried really hard to keep spending down so that we could still afford some holidays (travel is his passion). I kept it a secret from him and tried to pay it off but was doing so very slowly, and thought that when I started back at work after maternity leave I’d find that easier to do. My husband checked my phone one day and saw the balance, we had a huge argument, I told him how sorry I was and that from now on I’d be open with him. I thought he was going to divorce me and I was petrified.

Between us we earn about 90k. We have a mortgage, monthly car payment, plenty of holidays (we budget £12k a year), we are paying off some old debt of his which will be gone in the next few years. When I get paid I send my wages to my husband. He sorts the finances and sends me some back for the month.

I feel like it’s really hard to manage my money and feel on top of things when I have so little autonomy or say, I don’t know what is saved, I can’t see the holiday savings pot, I have no access to the mortgage details to see what’s paid each month and what’s left, I have to ask my husband for any big purchases we need so he can sort it (new car seats needed, for example). I run out of my own money every month, and over the past two years I’ve ended up using a credit card at the end of each month and now have massive debts there, another £1000. My husband doesn’t know about that, I’m going to try and pay £100 a month off from next month onwards. He will be really angry if he finds out about it, but I haven’t felt able to be open with him about when I’m using it as he asks me all the time- ‘what have you got left this month? Why? It’s only three weeks in? What have you spent? I don’t know why you buy that? I’ll do the foodshop next week then it will be better and you won’t have to top it up. Is that all you have left?’ Etc- I find it constant and irritating and like I’m being treated like a child.

I feel like I’ve lost my ability to handle money, to budget, to take responsibility for any bills. If anything happened to my husband I’d be completely stuck. I feel it’s a cycle that gets worse.

It’s five days until payday, I have about £12 left. We have just come back from a far flung holiday which we had already paid for somehow spread across the year, and somehow I’m yet again riddled with anxiety again about how I’m going to get through the next five days.

A stupid post, a stupid woman, I know. I should be open with my husband about my massive debt, but I find the conversation so so so so hard, I don’t know why, I just can’t say the words. I’m so used to sleepless nights, being snappy, feeling like I have a knot in my tummy worrying a bout how I’ll get through the next week, or two weeks etc. on the contrary, my husband will spend happily, use a card if needed and sort it the next month.

I don’t know why I am posting really, I just feel so incredibly worried and sad and it’s a pattern that happens at the end of every month. We have a good life and a good home and I have a good job and yet this knot in my chest constantly

Frankly, if something happened to your husband, it might help you financially. How can you possibly budget if you are denied access to knowledge about the finances that you share together? Why is he so controlling and angry? You are taking far flung holidays together which sound as though you can't really afford them, and yet you are having to put joint expenses like clothes for the baby which both of you share on your own credit card and get into debt with them and other basic expenses. He is not helping you here at all.

We can afford them in the sense we don't have debt, but I really could do with more money each month myself.

Im not denied access, if I ask about it he will pull up the spreadsheet. He works with excel and gets frustrated that im not very mathsy and struggle to follow

There's so much to unpick here, but what really stands out is i) you send your salary to your husband to 'manage' and ii) you hide debt from him because you're scared he'll be angry. That really does not sound healthy.

Stop sending your husband your wages- you need to see the spreadsheet and see everything that you collectively spend. It your wages are disproportionately different this needs to be addressed. But ultimately you send your share of the bills and keep the rest, have a personal savings account and a debit account to use for day to day things, budget for a week and try to underspend to get ahead of yourself.
you also need the account numbers and passwords to all joint amenities- and I’d be fucking fuming he went through my phone!

You yourself wrote "I don’t know what is saved, I can’t see the holiday savings pot, I have no access to the mortgage details to see what’s paid each month and what’s left." That doesn't sound like easy, simple access to me. So what if you aren't good at maths? It feels like you are blaming yourself for everything and from an outsider's view, this doesn't seem right.

You are both working, you refer to paying off his debt so you both have some debt, he lives travelling so prioritises saving for that. Stop feeling guilty about you buying things like stuff for the baby.
Of course you should be able to access the details on the family spend, you are a couple, a unit.
You both need to understand where the money is going to see if there are any savings to be made. He may be failing to understand why you need to do top up shops and are low by the end of the month because food is one of the things that has risen most.
You need to ask if you can have a sit down together to talk about money, explain that you will be more efficient with it if you understand better. If that fails point out that you have a right and a need to know in case something happens to him. If that fails you need to think about the relationship!

So much here to unravel but what stood out to me is that £1000 is NOT a massive debt , you have a £90k income & money to spend on far-flung holidays... Also £1500 over a year is also v little and easy to do with a little one. Sounds like he's infantilising you. Do you also actually want the expensive holidays?💐

@Silver777 perhaps not, but I've dubbed about it which is what makes me feel so awful

*fibbed

This is all so odd - you spend a large proportion of your combined salaries on holidays, but you don't actually have enough money to live on every month. When you said you built up debt on silly things, it was actually on essentials. And your DH has debt too - there's no point servicing debt for years while you go on lots of holidays.

I think your DH is being financially controlling, and also doesn't have a good enough handle on your essential monthly expenses, and so you then have to pick up the shortfall with secret debt. Can you have a discussion with your DH about this?

So much wrong here, get the SS out, work out a % based on take home pay and give him that or better still into a joint acc you both access, do not give him your entire salary. You need full transparency. Your blaming yourself alot but he's hardly helping the situation by controlling the family finances, it needs to be a joint effort.

Also 12k a year on travel on 90k is ridiculous!

12k isn't ridiculous on 90k a year, but depends on their essential spending.
How much fo you get yo spend and what do you need to fund? Without figures it's hard to know if you're being frivolous or he's not allocating enough. But either way you should know or be able to find our tthehousehold costs and be part of a partnership deciding on the budget for everything.

I don't think you should transfer your wages to him, rather your share of bills, but if for instance you pay for all the food from your own money that needs accounting for.

Absolutely stop transferring him your salary. You are being financially controlled.

Credit card debt shouldn't need to be run up because you need to buy essentials like top up food shops.

You need a joint account for food shopping that you contribute to equally.

If he's so gifted with maths he will have no problem giving you a straight forward list of the actual household bills for each month, not holiday savings. Those are not a priority and if there are any debts they are prioritised first.

All household bills. Every single one.

Total them up and divide them by two. You should not be giving him any more than that amount from your salary.

If this is higher than your salary them you have some significant discussion to have about realistic expectations.

You seem to be responsible for the food shopping so you know what needs to be a realistic budget for that too.

You're not stupid. Don't let him treat you as though you are.

Pay off the credit card. If he can put £12k away for holidays you can pay off the credit card in a couple of months.

Joint income of 90k, £1k CC debt isn't even 2%. Healthy credit card use, keep utilisation below 5%, pay it off in full before it charges you interest. Mr Finance should know that.

I use my credit cards (multiple) for everything, they are all paid off in full each month. Ensures an excellent credit rating. He's preventing you from being able to do that.

1. You need to stop getting into debt and hiding it from your husband - if you need more money for family expenses then ask him for it.
2. He needs to clear his debts in full before spending £12K on holidays a year
3. You need to sit down each month with him and look at where all of the money is going
4. It is sensible for him to manage the money if you can't be trusted to not overspend/get into debt, however he must ensure that you have enough money each month
5. All expenses for the house/family should be paid from the joint pot but
6. Look at your spending, are you buying essentials or wasting money on stuff that you don't need?

It doesn’t seem fair that he is keeping tabs on your spend but you have no idea what his spend each month is.

£12k a year on holidays is excessive when you're having to accrue debt to meet daily living expenses. If you weren't accruing debt - no problem, I also love to travel and spend a lot of my income on it too, I won't judge you!

I think there's two problems:

1. Hiding things from your husband.

1. You don't have visibility or understanding of the finances, and the way they're set up is contributing to 1. above.

I think you need to come clean with your husband, but also to insist on full access to and participation in the money management. If he won't agree to this you've got bigger problems in your marriage and life security than just a bit of debt. At the moment you will feel out of control because you are - you're having to manage your finances without knowing the state of them.

It comes across as if you feel like you're totally on the back foot because of the £1000, but don't let him take the power by being cross you've accrued it - asking for visibility over finances is a basic request in a marriage. He needs to bin the complex spreadsheets and agree a system that works for both of you.

I think the biggest questions here are:

1.do you have access to the spreadsheets and choose not to look or are you not allowed access

1. When you send money to your H is that to his sole account and then is squirreled into his sole accounts or is it in joint accounts that you either don't have the ability to access or do you choose not to look at them

1. If you said you needed a bit extra one month, how big a deal would it be? Could you ask this without fear?

My gut feeling is you are in a financially abusive situation and this man could one day financially ruin you by walking off with all the money you transferring to him and you'll have no comeback. If you tell him about the additional debt he will be angry and suggest you just have your salary paid directly to him to manage.

Ask to set up a joint account for your bills that you have access to. That will give you your answer.

The amount of debt you're talking about is tiny in relation to your income. It could probably be paid off with 2/3 months belt tightening.

£12k pa on holidays is ridiculous when you're in debt though.

The things you bought that got you in debt the first time (topping up food shops, petrol, baby clothes, nappies) are joint expenses, so you should be able to buy them out of joint money and if you can't afford these things between you, then holidays and other non essentials have to wait.

You need to go through the household budget together and you need access to sufficient money to pay for essentials without getting into debt.

But perhaps first, you could learn more about personal finance, so you're better informed about what good money management looks like?

Would you be able to do this free online course?

https://www.open.edu/openlearn/money-business/mses-academy-money/content-section-overview?active-tab=description-tab

Love, you are being financially abused.

Why is it ok for him to have debt and not you?

Why is it his passion that's being indulged at the expense of ordinary budget items?

You are working so that's a good thing and need to wrest control of your finances back from this man who thinks he owns you and your income.

It's not a silly post by a silly woman - this is your cry for help and if I were you I would get this moved to the Relationships topic where you will get a lot of help from women who have experienced this.

Hit report on your post and ask Mumsnet to move to Relationships and they will do it for you.

I don't blame you at all for feeling like that. He's treating you like a child.

Stop sending your salary to your dh. Agree a monthly amount that each of you put in a shared account for bills/food, and a savings account for holidays.

Bills should be split proportionate to earnings.

Whatever is left is yours and how you spend it is none of his business.

Sounds like financial abuse to me. Whether married or not you should have transparent visibility of your finances and you should have your own money. What happens if in 2 years time it is you that decides you want a divorce? You are in a very difficult position in that it sounds like you don't have any control of the money you earn.

Work out what your % contribution towards your joint expenses are and transfer him that amount each month when you get paid. The rest of the money I'd urge you to keep under your own control.

How do you actually know what your current joint financial position is? £90k joint income is healthy, although earning £90k and spending £91k a year isn't good. I'm someone who likes to travel too, I earn not too far off your joint income pre tax and if I was to allocate £12k for holidays a year that would be INSANE.

To show you how a set-up like yours might look if it is working:

We have always had our salaries in a joint account but I didn't tend to have much to do with it when our children were small. My husband took out a creditcard and I have a second card on that account. When we still got paper statements I could have checked them had I wished or needed to - but it is a significant problem with online banking that only one person can have access to a creditcard account, so unless my husband checks it and shows me I can't see it.

I have always used the creditcard for the majority of spending whether that be for household needs, children's needs or personal wants. We have it set to pay off each month. The only times my husband has talked to me about it have been when we've built up a higher than usual balance and might need to be aware of the credit limit for the rest of the month. Or to check a transaction that could be odd in case of fraud etc.

I relate to what you say about feeling lost because your husband is dealing with everything - I've absolutely felt that way at times. The difference is that I had the choice to get involved but didn't due to being too busy or unwell. Recently I've been able to step up much more and now I'm the one who's most likely to know what's going on with our accounts. It doesn't sound like you could easily switch roles from what you are describing.

I hope that you can find some support to take back some control and get access to a budget appropriate to the needs of a family. A "best case" scenario that occurs to me is that your husband is being so rigid because he himself is also not very good with money (hence old debts) and is doing this to be able to manage it. But in that case he needs urgently to understand that your current set-up is not working, and the budgets are set all wrong now you have a child.

Good luck!

You are being financially abused OP, please believe it.
How dare he be snappy and angry about debt you had built up buying nappies for the baby you share while you weren't working, when he has debt of his own to pay off?!
Stop sending him your salary to manage. Come up with a different arrangement. And suggest you go on slightly cheaper / fewer holidays while you both pay off the debt. It shouldn't take long on your joint salary.