my dad has a substantial amount of money in the home.

[carnetta]

Looking for some advice.

My father who is 84, and has a substantial amount of money in the home well over £120k. He worked all his life and was self employed for much of it, had an accountant and paid taxes etc, one could question if some of this money had been cash in hand work over the years or just money he has put aside or both and I honestly couldn't say and have no idea how I could prove what this money is if asked, I only found this hoard recently when decorating his home, to say I was shocked is some what of an understatement.

I'm not sure what to do, simply I want it to be put in a bank account so it is safe and I'm not worrying about it, and couldn't give a monkeys if it is taxed etc.

He is at a point in his life where communication can be really difficult at the best of times due to a stroke a few years ago, so he would really struggle with legal people, but I'm happy to be involved as best as I can.

I just don't know what to do for the best, or who to turn too. My dad has this money as some kind of weird safety net for "when he gets old" !!!!

Last thing I want to do is open up a can of worms and cause him any stress.

Thoughts please.

@carnetta not so stupid if he's saved 40% tax on it though? Just purposely avoided tax?

Suspect that there are quite a few workmen like this!

You know your dad best. Does he live independently and manage his own finances? Presumably there have been no concerns about his capabilities/ capacity or this would have been addressed before now. What has dad said? Being elderly / having had a stroke doesn’t automatically mean that he’s incapable and a relative can just start making decisions for him . I realise that’s not what you’re saying op but some posters are saying what they would do, without taking into account that it is not their money and not necessarily their decision.

I would put it in a secure safe in his own house, or a safety deposit box in the bank, and then mysteriously "find" it when he's not around any longer and report it to a solicitor dealing with probate.

It's a very regular occurence because so many old people stash money under the bed and hide it away. Could be awful if they were broken into.

It must have been accumulated recently if it's mostly plastic notes. They were only introduced 8 years ago! If he's 84 now, he'd have been 76 when plastic notes came in. Was he still working when he was 76? Otherwise, how did he get "customers" to swap older paper notes for plastic?

As for the advice to see a "professional accountant" - not a good idea as they are legally bound to report any suspicions of money laundering, proceeds of crime (inc tax evasion etc), etc., so unless you and/or your father can prove it all came from declared earnings, then the accountant would almost certainly report him as soon as you left his office! (He'd be liable for a prison sentence if he didn't! - they're not like solicitors where there's legal privilege).

Plenty of old people hiding money like this and claiming means tested benefits also which is fraud.

Yes he lives quite independently and can do every day bits, gets very tired and confused at times but no need for home help etc.. he is perfectly happy with this situation and to be fair doesn't talk about it, its like it doesn't exist to him, he lives off his pension anyway.. so it just sits in a safe, hidden.. crazy i know.

All i can think is at some point things will come to a point where something will need to be done with it all and i'd rather it be legal and above board..

He isn't claiming any benefits, or anything he isn't entitled too, paid his Stamps for state pension etc and worked like a trojan all his life up until he was 81 !!

Yes sorry wasn't suggesting your dad was commiting fraud !

I wonder if the previous poster has the best idea, now that the money has been secured in his home. Leave it where it is and when the time comes, feign ignorance.

Honestly op is make sure it's safe and leave it. He's living independently and is happy with it as it is. Protect it as best you can from theft.
When he dies, empty the house and declare it then.

I often pay large amounts of cash in due to trade, like £15 to £20k, call the bank first and explain the situation. They will take it
Whatever don't leave it in the house, fire, theft, vermin...

If really struggling pm me, I collect the bigger red ones that say 50 on them.

Use it as required to pay for his needs. It’s his money.

Realistically, the most likely scenario is that it will have to be dealt with when he dies, at which point whoever's dealing with his will can manage it and probably HMRC will take an interest.

At this stage, since you don't have POA and your dad has capacity, he can do what he likes with it and it's not on you to speak to anyone or move the money anywhere else. If he wanted to have a bonfire in the back garden and burn it all then that would be ok too.

I guess a dilemma might arise if he needed to move for care purposes, but if he owns his own house then he might be able to self-fund and so the issue of concealing assets wouldn't be a worry. At that point he might be more up for putting it somewhere else.

Or if their house caught fire.

Or if they get dementia, and just chuck it away!

My MIL had lots of money in her house, not as much as OP, but still a few thousand. She was obsessed with it and would hide it in rolls all over the house. Trouble was that she'd forget where she'd hidden it, so we'd get panic phone calls telling us she'd been burgled etc. Which meant we had to go down and search the house, and inevitably, we'd find rolls of cash in really weird places. Then for a while, she'd remember where it was, until a few weeks later, she'd move it and we'd get another phone call to say she'd been burgled.

As the dementia got worse, she forgot she had the cash, so wasn't obsessed with moving it around and constantly re-hiding it. We'd find random rolls of notes when we went down to help her do things, i.e. kitchen drawers, inside the microwave, etc., and she'd be surprised when we told her, as she forgot she had money and thought she was hard up (reading too much Daily Mail!).

Then one day, OH was doing some gardening for her and looked in her green bin before putting a load of cuttings in, and there were some rolls of cash in it! He did a quick count and it turned out to be about £20k! We asked her, and she said she remembered it, and that she threw it away because it was useless as it was "foreign" (which it wasn't - it was just new-style and all she could remember was how notes used to look years ago). Heaven knows whether she'd thrown more money away!

After that, DH found and took all the money from her and took it away. Now we "drip feed" it to her to pay for her window cleaning, groceries, newspapers etc., and drip feed it into our bank account when we pay her bigger bills (like repainting, new carpet, new sofa, etc) by our bank cards directly.

Years ago, we had an elderly neighbour who died at an old age. As is common, her house was a wreck, so it was sold to someone who did a full refurbishment. We got to know him and he said he'd found loads of cash hidden all over the house, again, tens of thousands which was a huge amount back then in the 70's! Most was stuffed in boxes up the chimneys apparently, but there was also boxes of notes under floorboards, stuck behind/under the kitchen sink, etc. I think basically there was so much he got the house for free in the end. There were no relatives, so he just kept quiet about it!

Capacity isn’t a global thing, it is a time and question specific concept. You can have the capacity to make some de is ions but maybe not others. This requires a specific assessment.
People with cognitive/thinking skills issues often prefer to talk about general things and they may have difficulty with specifics and it’s uncomfortable.

Lasting Power of Attorney is split between healthcare and finances. It’s a good idea for any age of adult to have these in place as we never know when something may happen and it would help for someone we trust to be able to act in our best interests. It’s far easier to set these up when we’re fully able. After someone loses capacity to decide to set up an LPA it becomes a court process and much more complex.

I wonder if ignorance is bliss here. Declaring it, contacting banks etc is only going to open a can of worms.

Maybe in the meantime, keep it safe, encourage DF to pay for as many things as possible in cash, shopping etc. Then one day, you can 'find it' and declare it to the probate solicitor who will have to deal with it one way or another. You can cross a care bridge if/when you get to it.

He was working up until he was 81 - and clearly i can't give you full details of everything, but just to say it would be very easy for him to hand back old notes in change when customers are giving him new notes and not paying with cards, old notes stay legal tender for quite some time when new notes are introduced. He is not some mastermind criminal , foolish maybe, and as I say most of this money is likely to be his but yes it could be likely he should have declared some. I honestly cannot say.

All I want to do is the right thing, if it is at all possible. If we have to wait until he dies and then declare it and see what happens, then so be it. But I'd much rather it sits in his bank account, legally and above board if possible.

That's a very dodgy suggestion. OP, don't do this!

Sadly the type of man my father is, getting him to even talk about LPA is going to be a huge challenge, he will probably shut down and get very upset. I cannot begin to even tell you how hard the last couple of years have been, and this recent find really has added another burden, but as I say its only me who seems to be carrying the burden as he is perfectly happy with the situtation. I just wish I had never seen this money is how i feel.

I'd argue having old notes would be beneficial in demonstrating not untypical behaviour in the elderly in hoarding cash over a number of years.

A quick Google indicates they can accepted and deposited in some bank accounts

This is what I had resigned myself too, but was hoping that others might have some thoughts or been in a similar situation.

When my dad worked for a County Council social services department, one of the home helps visited a very old lady, and found her lying in bed with a large number of bank notes, all loose in the bed. It amounted to £20,000 in the mid 1970s, around £130,000 in today's values. As she was incontinent, it was mostly stained with faeces, and had to be cleaned by a specialist company before the County could bank it for her and get her registered with the Office of the Public Guardian.

Sounds like it’s been tough but you’re really trying to do the best for him.
Would you be open to sharing the burden a bit if you can find some support? Formally Social Services can offer support for different elements. Informally some areas have excellent carers support groups. Your GP practice should have info.