MIL gave is some money but is possibly going into a care home.

[JumpingDizzy]

Mil gave dh and I a large sum of money when she sold her house. She moved into rented to be nearer family.
I was dubious at time as she's in her late 80s. For all we would love to see her end her days at home this is rarely the case. My dm more or less did but died in hospital. But she had support at home. Dh and I and mil's other close family all still work.
Mil has been having respite in a local care home. She was reluctant at first but is now settling in. It's fantastic. Staff are great which is the main thing. There's lots of activities and mil has made friends.
I've said to dh I think she'd be better off living there if she's up for it. It's much safer,she's eating regular, she's enjoying the activities and entertainment.
We know we'll have to give the money back she's given us. She still has over 100k in the bank. But once it gets to a certain amount they'll be looking for this. It's a shame as she'd be gutted if she knew we'll lose the money. We'd never tell her though. It was towards a house move to a better area which we're in the process of doing. We'll probably have to stop now though.
Has anyone experienced this? We're not sure what happens tbh.

Edited for spelling

It's 50k she gave him.

Thank you all of those who are being so helpful.

Seven years is to do with IHT isn't it?

Deprivation rules are broadly similar to those applying to other means tested benefits like UC. They'd need to show she deprived herself with the intention of obtaining benefit or increasing the amount payable.

If, two years ago, knowing she'd care was a real probability and not just something that might happen then I think that helps the OP. We're also told that MIL sold up and moved to be nearer family. That, and not avoiding care fees, was the driver.

My DM’s neighbour had this . Given money and bought new house. Their parent went into care sooner than expected and they were having to sell their new house to give back the money to pay for her care.

It is not a simple question of being funded by state and in one place, or not funded.
most people after a while enter into partial funding, and eventually potentially full funding. This is because they may go into care home relatively mobile and with low nursing needs, but end up needing intensive nursing needs.

you also may find you can’t stay in home you started in. Many care homes are private and can’t/wont employ nursing staff at level needed for your relative

ifvthere is cognitive decline many care homes are simply not geared for DoL or section 117 needs until mental health act. Sadly, in these cases there is often simply no choice as to where your parent end up.

my dad has now been diagnosed late stage LBD. section 117. Full funding. But he started in respite care home with lovely faciltities he choose. He was there all of 6 months until they couldn’t “cope “ with him. He has been shunted from pilla4 to post in 6 different hospital wards, care homes and nursing homes in last 12 months. Some of these were nhs full funded hospital mental wards and were bloody awful. Some were nice, but he was agian chucked out. In march he was effectively homeless as no one could manage his needs in “area”, and was bed blocking in hospital again. We were purely lucky that an out of area place in a dementia nursing home became available. No choice to meet his needs- literally one single bed on one single place that was within commutable distances for us, Luckily it is a bloody marvellous place in comparison, and they can cope with his decline till his death now. It took us 18 months to get there.

care provision is not as simple as choosing a “nice” home and paying for it , or not paying and going into a council provided place that’s crap. It just does NOT work like that at all. A lot is down to the needs and lack of resources to meet those no matter how much money you could throw at it

And that's the crux. If it's expected they'll need care, in the sense that they're struggling with daily living or losing their faculties, and that they need care sooner rather than later, then it looks like deprivation.

If they were fit and well, bright as a button and out and about every day then had a stroke with no precursors and fell downstairs resulting in needing 24/7 it's a different story.

See my link…your right, 7 year rule has nowt to do with deprivation of asset, there’s no time limit constraints on that…

It ain’t as clear cut as that- see my link

Er yes. Lots

@Mouswife @Cadela
If you go into. Care home within 7 years they can come after the money. It's considered deprivation of assets. Otherwise everyone would just give their family all their assets before they went into a care home to avoid paying

There's no time limit but I think proving gifts made pre-illness and way back when were to avoid fees would be an uphill struggle.

That said, giving the house away rather than gifting cash is likely to look fishy.

So she has £100k left in cash and gave you £50k?

£100k is enough for nearly 2 years of fees on average. Also - does MIL have a pension as that will lengthen the time that she has enough to cover it from her own funds.

Being blunt about it the life expectancy of someone in their 80s is not that high. She may not live long enough to get through her remaining savings.

And you could give the argument that she expected to have enough with her remaining cash. May not work but would give you time.

She has the money.

She's deprived herself so someone else can pick up the bill and you get to spend it.

Let’s also be clear if the house was sold, and she has gifted just part of that to son already, how much will actually be needed for care in probability ?

the statistics, when you dig into them, start to paint a picture that an about of £180-£200 is at an upper end. Hence why, when the all party agreement was given to cap the care payment it was (back then) set at £150k I think. (I’ve increased the amount based on closer to £1700-2000 per week fees) Remember also some of this will be covered by pension income, which they will still receive. Many people as their illnesses progress will have partial funding kick in. In the end the £180-£200k is a pretty “unlucky” but not unlikely cost. Women tend to have to spend more as we enter care earlier - note ladies we enter earlier not for mobility issue but incontinence and personal care issues. That statistic shocked me. Most people stay in care 3 years, with a long tail to 8 years. It is more unusual for it to be longer, but agian unlucky not unlikely. And yes, despite what we are preoccupied about 42% of over 80s living alone can do so independently still with no support. So there’s a good chance you won’t need care home at all. Ever.

So even where hours are sold,the chances of you blowing the assets raised from this entirely are less likely than more likely given the average house price now. And therefore there’s a chance that already gifted money won’t be needed to be recouped.

Most care homes will take people who are state funded.
they can’t afford not to 🤷🏼‍♀️🤣
you are maybe confusing the idea that there are private care homes (better) and state (council) care homes…well there may be a few left..but since austerity most council outsourced. I’ve certainly not come across a state run care home in my dealings on this matter.
there are nhs wards - nursing including dementia assessment units, mental health unit housing elderly patients with difficult needs albeit temporarily or while in assessment. These are wards, not homes. Temporary and basic

then they’re discharged and shifted to private sector - with full funding or partial funding from council, or none at all if you don’t qualify for nursing needs, or have come form you’re own home and not via a hospital discharge route.

there are processes that are followed to assess the level of funding. That is assessment is a function of social care and performed by social workers according to strict criteria. That process, and all legal contracts you sign with a care home will also be looking at what means you have to pay your fees.

I know, some very I'll informed comments on here.

OP your MIL gifting a large chunk of money and subsequently requiring residential care will be viewed as deprivation of assets. Have a look on the ageuk. Org site and search for deprivation of assets in social care.

How is her care state funded yet as over £100k in the bank.

She isn't in care ft yet she's had respite.

20 years ago this might have been correct but local authorities are most definitely going after people now, they have to as most are on the verge of bankruptcy or actually bankrupt.

This will certainly be seen as doa. Especially as it was so recently given. No one in their late 80s can be unaware that they are likely to need care.

OP, this really isn't the place to ask for advice about things like this because, as you can see, plenty of posters are happy to post incorrect information. I don't know why people do that, it makes them look stupid and it's unhelpful.

Some, more helpful, posters have posted links to age uk. I'd start there.

My grandmother has been in hers for 8 years so far, she’s almost 100 so didn’t start until she was nearly 90 and if she makes it that far will have paid circa £1m in her fees. It’s gone up to £98k a year (was £80 something k when she started).

@Dartwarbler I have personal experience and as your link says

“There could be valid reasons for doing any of these things. The council must consider the timing and motivation of your actions. If they decide that you knew you would need care, and you were trying to avoid paying towards it, they may see this as deprivation of assets.”

Giving away cash when you are in good health isn’t necessarily DOA and difficult for a council to argue it is. And it’s not as simple as because you are old when you do something it’s automatically to avoid care home fees.

I'd keep the money for now, put it in ISA's and invest to get interest. If she dips below I think it's about £23k you'll have to pay it back but you'd be able to keep the interest. Care fees are about £1k to £1.5k per week. You can easily pay £65k in a single year. My auntie paid them and her savings soon diminished but she did also put her pension towards care fees.

And this is why there was cross party agreement to cap fees. There will always be a small minority that end up for long time and run up eye watering sums.
thst is luck. Or lack of
it is not socially just or fair to burden people in this situation for paying for care when others with different more obviously physical illnesses will be covered by nhs

TORYS (do we remeber them) kicked this can of agreement down the road, pushing out implementing it numerous times. It’s still out there. Can’t see labour instigating it this term, maybe if they get a second. Ed davey talked about it

im surprised your grandmother gets no funding at all after 8 years and nearly 100 - have you had her assessed recently to check she does not now qualify for at least some nursing needs?

yes, I’m sorry, it’s shit for family. And worrying. And yes you’re at that tale end of statistic norm.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/changes-to-social-care/

Also some councils are more aggressive in reclaiming money than others.