Sold ring to jeweller now he wants his money back

[Chopsticks2829]

Hi can anyone give me advice for a friend…
My friends mum enjoys buying bits and bobs of costume jewellery and beads from eBay as she enjoys arts and crafts and making things.
She bought a bag full of rings, beads and other bits and bobs recently, and inside it was a men’s gold ring. My friend took it to her local jeweller, she signed paperwork to say she had the right to sell the ring and was given £425 for it.
The jeweller has now come back to her several weeks later and said he wants his money back as the ring isn’t what he though and is just heavily plated.
The ring was sold to an experienced jeweller in good faith. The price was agreed and the deal was done. Had the opposite happened, and the jeweller made a mint, my friend would have had no come back.
Is the jeweller within his rights to ask for the money back? He’s been sending my friend screenshots from the internet about sale of counterfeit and fake goods which I don’t think applies to this case.
Thank you for reading 🙏🏻

The paperwork she signed is important. It might have said "if the ring turns out to be worth less than I received, I will return the balance to you". I doubt it does or he'd be referencing that. And it would be a silly way to run a business, better to pay a down payment and any balance later when valued. I presume she doesn't have a copy of the paperwork?

Sold as seen. No returns.

Tell her to stop engaging. And not to reply to this message either. He sounds very dodgy.

Where did you get the exchange bit from? Have I missed something?

This!

she needs to stop engaging and block!!

What do you mean? Do you just not understand what that sentence means?

The poster is saying she should not accept any ring back in exchange for the cash. As in, the jeweller wants her to come back and take the ring and return the money; an exchange of money for item. The poster is advising her to say that she will not accept any item from him in exchange for the money, because he could return a fake ring and her actual ring is valuable. And also because she doesn’t need to; it’s all his responsibility.

No fraud seems to have been committed, and you can only go through your bank for money stolen/taken from your account without consent. If you've paid out deliberately, you can't just go through your bank to claim the money back. The jeweller is incompetent and a bully at best, fraudulent at worst. Either way, your friend should just ignore him.

If your friend has legal cover on her home insurance is given them a ring. They might be able to draft a letter on her behalf.

I see. It was the wording that confused me - I read it as return the money and get a shop item in exchange.

Could be trying to scam, double for nothing.
I would block him.. The worst he can do is try to claim the money back from the bank.

I'd ignore him, he's an idiot.

If I was feeling particularly cranky I'd reply "Oh yes, Trading Standards - good idea. I'll give them a call and see what they say."

An important question that hasn't been answered already as far as I can see. Did she tell him the ring was genuine gold?

That doesn’t matter. Go into any pawn shop or jewellers and tell them something is gold, they’ll do their own testing. They make the decision based on their testing and not what you tell them. It also wouldn’t fly if he tried to sue her for it as he is the one with the expertise.

I suppose I was trying to suggest he might be exchanging a random cheaper ring instead of the one they'd sold him. Because how would they know? But just putting it like that so it wouldn't open up any argument.

I'm a jeweller, we sometimes buy gold items, but if I was in any way unsure I wouldn't offer a price or money until it had been tested.
If they have uk hallmarks then unlikely to need testing.

Whilst I agree he should be able to tell, it being his livelihood and all, I have a suspicion it does matter.

By no means qualified in legal matters, but if they've had her sign paperwork, it makes me wonder what else was on the paperwork ie: 'I agree that x piece is what I'm selling it as'.

Things do often need a closer look. I can think off the top of my head several instances where this would happen - items being delivered, you get the testing done/closer inspection, and it's not what it's sold as, Even as a business, I would imagine they have some protection against this.

He's asking for a refund. If the ring is worthless, I would just refund. Business or not I'd feel bad about raking in £425 for costume jewellery that was sold as gold, essentially.

Yes, things need a closer look. And the responsibility is on the jeweller to do the closer look before making an offer.
It would be different if the person advertised and sold it to someone through eBay/Facebook/whatever. But they didn’t. They went to a jeweller and got a valuation and an offer. It’s all on the jeweller, unless she actually faked some kind of authenticity paperwork.
The paperwork you sign is to confirm you own it and to acknowledge that your details will be given to police if the item ends up part of an investigation etc.

Cynically, how do we know the jeweller would give the original ring back in the refund? Unless it was sold as solid gold then I really don’t think they have a leg to stand on and they need to chalk it up to experience if it is indeed a genuine situation (and not a scam..)

What did your friend say in response to his last message, OP?

He absolutely cannot claim from the bank! Also Trading Standards govern businesses not customers (your friend being the customer, despite her selling to him. He is the business) so he's got that backwards!

Is anybody else amazed that a used gold ring sold for £425 cash? I wonder what this incompetent jeweller thought he was getting; it would have to be a hefty 24-carat number for that.

I'm betting he's got a drink problem or similar.

I8ct gold scraps at over £43/g if it was a heavy gents signet ring or wedding ring then that is feasible

He's asking for a refund. If the ring is worthless, I would just refund. Business or not I'd feel bad about raking in £425 for costume jewellery that was sold as gold, essentially.

You're being ridiculous. he said it was gold and offered £425. She hasn't "raked it in" and has nothing to feel bad about.

There is no "refund" here, because the person who sold the ring isn't a business.

What the jeweller is proposing is for the OPs friend to purchase the ring from him at a price of £425. Since she didn't want the ring in the first place, which was why she sold it, why on earth would she want to now purchase it - and for a price that it isn't even worth (according to him)?!

Not strictly relevant to the question but if your friend's mum just buys bits and bobs for craft, was it not a bit unfair to the original seller not to let them know they appeared to have accidentally included an expensive gold ring?

You're being ridiculous too. If you sell something privately it's on you to establish that you're happy with selling those items for that price. Just as the buyer establishes that they're happy to buy those items at that price. Once the transaction has taken place nobody owes anybody anything.

@Politicians247UnderwearExtinguishingService "like opening up a tyre sales place and then complaining to all the customers who turn up that it's just soooo difficult to change tyres armed with your tin opener"

Brilliant 😄

Responsibility isn’t entirely on the jeweller. You can’t avoid criminal responsibility like that. A fraud charge would not require her to have faked paperwork, only to have knowingly make a false representation (i.e. lied on purpose).

Difficult to prove if it was all done verbally and the shop doesn’t routinely record negotiations and the guy’s responses make him sound like a chancer who doesn’t have a clue rather than a professional who was defrauded, but morally and legally what the OP’s friend claimed is relevant.

@Chopsticks2829 Surely the ring will be hallmarked?
I bought some silver items from a dog rescue and they were hallmarked, one was made 20 yrs ago, the other 21 yrs ago, the hallmarks showed where they were made and Gold jewellery almost certainly would be hallmarked if British.

I Don't know about foreign gold- but probably a jeweller would.