Couple's financial planning without the tremendous rows

[TrescoDays]

Is there such a thing as financial mediation for a couple? We are both 55, have a few different pots of money, pensions and a house with no mortgage. We need to make a 25 year plan for our final working years and retirement, as well as handing over cash to our kids.

The simple problem is we can't talk about money without it ending in a blazing row. My husband has a lot more money than me, from his family, and following some problems in our marriage, is not transparent about where this is and how much. I run a limited company and this brings its own complexities.

We need to sit down and thrash this out, but I want to do this with a third person: someone between an IFA and a mediator. We are stuck, unable to agree about replacing worn out furniture because of the bigger, unexamined, picture.

Does this unicorn exist? Please say it does and what have you done in a similar situation?
THANKS

I’m sorry but I think the ‘bigger, unexamined picture’ is the state of your marriage and whether you both want it to continue. I suggest a relationship counsellor is what you need.

Money Coach. Maybe they can talk about money related things in general and have you both come to agreement, not ending in a blazing row.

Then once you are both on the same page and not having a row, then a financial planner could go into the detailed planning of using different investment wrappers and do cashflow modelling.

Not a unicorn! You need one of these: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/mar/25/money-coaches-the-mentors-who-focus-on-financial-health-not-wealth

I’m with Cantabulous. Relationship counselling first.

It sounds like you’re trying to find a way to force him to be open about his finances - it won’t happen. A financial advisor doesn’t want to sit between two bitter and lying people.

Go for relationship counselling and lead with explaining that you want to talk finances but can’t. Then start sorting out all the shit behind why you can’t. After that, you decide it’s better to do single person financial planning. You may get a better view of his assets in the divorce paperwork.

I agree a money coach would be good eventually.
However, can you talk about the future without making it about money?

1. what age you each would like to retire from full time work
2. would you want to sell your business or keep until the end?
3. whether either of you would like to work part time or volunteer in retirement?
4. would you want to sell the family home and buy a retirement home?
5. where do you want to live?
6. what sort of travel or personal goals do you have?
7. what do you both want to do for your kids?
8. how do you feel about grandkids, ie are you willing to provide childcare?

Build a vision of what you want as a couple and then the next steps are planning and seeing what each of you can/should contribute financially and setting up your wills.

It feels sort of cart before the horse to start at a 25 year money plan assume that cash will be handed down to the kids.

Would it help to explain his behaviour that bothers you, to see whether there's underlying motives that make sense to us?

For example, DH wanted to save everything and never spend anything. He wanted to pay off the mortgage asap. I felt that was unspecific and unending we will always act as though we're poor and will never spend money or have nice things.

We compromised on aiming to pay off the mortgage before ds1 went to uni to free money up for him, when he finished it would be time for ds2. Then we'd feel rich.

It hasn't actually worked, but we both felt better about it when we understood the other's perspective.

We've had a ton of counselling and both been in therapy separately. We want to go forward as a couple, but he flies off the handle when we talk about money. The biggest issue is he has £1m+ from his family and he doesn't want to share it with me, he wants to give some of it to our kids, and otherwise isn't prepared to release it for anything. For a long time after he received it, he didn't even tell me about it. Yes, this is a shit situation. He thinks I have no right to the money, or even an opinion on it. We have always shared everything, joint bank account, joint mortgage. So this is extremely hurtful.
It also means I can't make any financial plans myself like paying into a pension: well I can but not with any strategy or efficiency.
That's why I asked about a third party who can help navigate these things . thanks for all advice so far.

I think it needs a relationship counsellor first otherwise the financial side is going to go nowhere.

I know you have had some but I can't see how a financial advisor can help unless you are already vaguely on the same page in terms of how you see this relationship.

If he hadn't had the windfall, what would your position have been. ? If he chose to give it all to the children what would your position be?

I guess depending how comfortable you are depends how unreasonable or otherwise he is being to ring fence it for the children etc

I do have some inheritance I have ring fenced because it was given to me alongside a very clear expression of wishes as to how it should be used. DH knows and respects that and we don't treat it as part of general funds

Is there any reason not to put everything you can into your pension? I'd say he has a personal pot he doesn't need to share, so you build up a pot that's exactly what you want. If he wants you to contribute to a holiday say, or a summer house, and you can't because your money is spoken for, I'd just say you can't.

I would think you could plan financially excluding the inheritance. That would make sense to me. The inheritance is 'extra' and he doesn't want it viewed as generally available. He wants to spend it on something splashy say- like big gifts to the kids, and maybe a boat. He wants to look like the man who's generously given his kids a house deposit or fancy wedding.
I mean it's not what I'd do, but it sounds like his ego wants some reward for possessing this money. I can see how 'winnings' don't just go in the general pot

What's your attitude to money like generally? Are you well matched or is he a spender while you are sensible?

edit for typo.

That’s not a marriage to me (and in a second marriage with completely separate finances!) not because he sees it as his money, but because he flies off the handle with you over it.

But OK, you went to stay 🤷🏻‍♀️

So why can’t you move forward as is?
Accept that it’s his money not yours.
Then you need to know:

1. how much does he plan to give your children? (because if it’s sizeable, you can factor out saving for them yourself)
2. Will the children inherit that money? (again, so you don’t have to consider your kids in your plans)

Then, plan your retirement.

My husband and I have entirely separate plans. That’s partly because in a second marriage, we know we could split at any time - or die, he’s a widower - which means you’re on your own anyway. So we save to our own pensions, and plot our retirement dates according to our own earnings and desires.

In your shoes I would just go ahead and build up my pension and savings in a way that suits me. Stop discussing money. I would feel very hurt though that he didn't include me in his thinking about his stash.

I still don’t see what you expect a third party to do. You already have the info: he has £1m that he won’t include in the plans, and you’ve decided to accept that. What do you expect the third party to say other than, “right let’s ignore that then, and look at your other assets.”?

That’s so odd! Divorce him and take half

The biggest issue is he has £1m+ from his family and he doesn't want to share it with me, he wants to give some of it to our kids, and otherwise isn't prepared to release it for anything.

So whats his big plan?
I can actually understand he wants to decide what to do with it.
but are you saying he wouldnt go on a big 5 star family holiday / do an extension on the house / buy a caravan / build a summerhouse?
Ie he wants you to not benefit in any way

He is also secretive about all his toher assets...
Thats really quite toxic. it sounds like he doesnt want to share ANYTHING.
In which case divorce might be your best / only choice for a secure retirement.

What @Testina and @FrenchandSaunders said.

If relationship counseling has been unsuccessful, a financial adviser isn't going to be able to work some magic.

Also, I don't understand why you haven't invested in a pension for yourself. You've left this rather late. This should have been independent of any joint investments.

You'll be better off - not just financially! - if you were to divorce.

It sounds like you want different things. If my DH told me I needed to make a 25 year plan I would probably disengage. You need to listen to his point of view. It’s not your way or the highway. However, there does need to be equity and you need to make financial plans and have the wherewithall to buy furniture if it is needed.

Have you agreed a will?

I don’t get why you are linking the two? What he does with his inheritance should have no bearing on your pension savings. Your saving strategy should be geared towards your personal goals, without banking on him sharing an inheritance.

Personally, I think it is his to decide what to do with it and I would be accepting of his wish to pass as much as possible down to the next generation.

Start with what you can agree on- the broad strokes. Seeing if it is financially doable is the step after.

I don't think this is a good relationship, that is the root cause of the money issue.

surely though, regardless of your differences on the £1m he needs to plan a trust for this money so it does go straight to the dc.

I can understand your hurt and resentment, but in the scheme of things planning does need to be done - otherwise if he pops it could go tits up

Thanks for all your thoughts. The financial issues are wider than his pot of cash from his family. The house, the pensions, other cash deposits. We need to agree on a strategy so we can effectively plan for the future. My issue is finding someone to help us do this, in a calm and rational way - and not from an IFA position.

Can you not do it without that pot, then compare it to what you'd do with the pot?

I'm afraid he's refusing to do it jointly so you'll have to do what's in your best interests.

He won’t want to discuss it with an advisor. He knows any FA will tell him that you’re married and all assets are considered joint assets.

You’d be much better off divorced, it sounds like.

He seems to have quite a bitter attitude towards you given you have apparently decided you are better together as a couple.

Fine, he may want more control over the inheritance and have particular plans for it. I can understand that I suppose. It would be better if you could be aligned on those plans though.

However, he’s wasting his time trying to hide any other assets from you as in a divorce they are 50% yours (unless you have a prenup?). Also given you may have limited pension and other assets to support your lifestyle on a divorce I expect the inheritance might need to be used to provide you with sufficient assets in a divorce anyway.

I’m not saying you should get divorced. I’m just saying he should realise it’s pointless trying to exclude you from his financial decisions because if you were to divorce, he would have no choice!

Not all assets are automatically joint assets:
“In England and Wales, property and assets acquired through work, business or investment are usually put into the ‘matrimonial pot’ and divided equally on divorce. As a general rule, the Court’s view is that there is a difference between assets and property which have been amassed by the parties during the marriage by virtue of their own endeavors, and assets which have been inherited.” https://www.blasermills.co.uk/insights/article/divorcing-how-the-court-treats-what-youve-inherited/