Problems opening a joint account - Starling/First Direct

[mmmarmalade]

Are banks actually reluctant to open joint accounts these days?

We've had personal Starling accounts for 2+ years & wanted to close our Barclays joint account (20+ yrs old) and move to Starling - however - they refused the request - without explanation (which is normal across all banks as I understand it) - we both have 999 Experian credit ratings, no bankruptcies, unpaid loans, missed payments - and mortgage paid off 10 years ago - I get the "open joint" option in the Starling app but my wife - with a monthly income of £3k does not; we've had joint accounts since 1986. As if that wasn't annoying enough - the only way Starling deal with any questions is via an 8 week complaint process - the customer service are completely impotent - know nothing, can't resolve anything. We use Chase for everyday spending now, Atom for 1yr savings and we've had Tesco CC for years - as a result of the problems with getting any kind of movement or response from Starling I've just opened a Monzo account with a view to getting a joint account set up there. See reddit and elsewhere for similar problems with getting Starling to open joint accounts.

Who else has had problems opening joint accounts either with Starling or other banks? It's hard not to suspect we don't fit their target demographic - they are looking for people who are better at MIS-managing their finances -maybe a good credit rating actually goes against you in some situations. They can see 2+ years worth of transactions in each of our personal Starling accounts. I read all of the info on eligibility criteria - it really doesn't say a lot - having a joint account is central to the way we work as a couple - we only ended up with Starling accounts as we had problems with First Direct trying to open a joint account - they kept saying we hadn't supplied all the necessary info - back then we sent in paper forms and they definitely had all the info - we had photocopies of the forms. We opened the Starling personal accounts with a view to opening a joint account and switching to them - the first time we've ever had individual accounts since we were students. So instead of waiting another 7 weeks for Starling to "not explain" why my wife can't open a joint account with me it seemed easier to open personal accounts with Monzo again with a view to closing the Barclays joint account down and switching to Monzo - they aren't my first choice but looking around at YT reviews etc I've decided First Direct really isn't in the same league as Starling/Monzo/Revolut (who don't have a full UK banking license, no FSCS protection).

Perhaps the Credit rating is meaningless for the customer - perhaps it's the way banks decide who they can potentially make the most money from - i.e. they are profiling us to see if we fit their target market. Or, as banks are under no obligation to explain any of their decisions to customers - for reasons related to fraud/money laundering, etc - the information that actually matters when it comes to decisions about offering or refusing banking services to customers - is not the credit rating - it is some other hidden stream of information about us - that we can't question, inspect, verify or question; I don't know - it's all very odd.

My DD used Monzo for her travels all around the world and says the app is good and she's had no problems with it.

Thoughts anyone?

I have never struggled to get a joint account maybe you are just unlucky. I would be hesitant to use Monzo as a main account as it is struggling financially and for an online bank Which have just given them a surprisingly low security rating. https://www.which.co.uk/money/banking/banking-security-and-payment-methods/how-safe-is-online-banking-aPdmC5M5Emnj

My DH and I have a joint Starling account, no problem opening it, and like you have good incomes and high credit scores. We also have individual Starling accounts and high street bank accounts.

I wonder if there is a mistake on your wife’s credit record.

It's very odd because I handle all of the finances - pay all the bills, change energy companies, sort out car/buildings and contents insurance, savings, do all the ordering - she just uses her cards to buy food and petrol - no store cards; maybe that in itself is part of the problem - I don't understand it. With a 999 Experian rating I'm imagining there is nothing at all of any note on her financial history.

We've both messaged Starling a lot but they are just saying - it will take 8 weeks to review. Who is going to wait 8 weeks to open an account!? Based on what I've read they are not going to explain or allow us to open a joint account once their algorithms have declines the request the first time.

@AgreeableDragon Did you have personal accounts with Starling for long before asking for a joint account or did you do that almost immediately after opening the individual accounts? Did you both have salaries going in to your personal accounts? We didn't do this because our salaries/income streams went into our joint account at Barclays and we wanted a joint account at Starling to do the same - which - obviously we couldn't do with Starling right at the start so we opened individual personal accounts to start with and assumed we'd be able to open a joint account - we just dumped 10k in each account to start with - farmed money out to other savings accounts - I used mine quite a lot for payments for holiday related things and for transferring money into Chase for everyday spending, money in and out of premium bonds. It's beyond disappointing and incomprehensible. Ah well - nothing we can do.

My credit score is also 999 but I just get declined for a credit card with my own bank (of 25 years) because I DON'T have any other debts. They can't see how well I manage debt so despite having a good credit score I am a risk.

There I was thinking once I'd paid off my mortgage I'd be such a good candidate for finance...

@Wolfpa I have hesitated with Monzo - there are quite a lot of issues to get to grips with over the last 4 years - which I have taken some time to look into. Starling developers left to start Monzo, there were disagreements about obtaining the UK banking license before launching the apps - Starling waited, Monzo didn't - and they went ahead an captured a lot of users but were slow to return a profit. Back in 2020 Monzo was criticised for freezing accounts and then being very slow to look into the reasons their algorithms locked accounts - those complaints have only recently been brought to a head.

The Which report does raise some valid points about the implementation of the apps - I was a software developer for 25+ years - real-time embedded/low level and I would hope that Monzo are working to address the issues that do matter as what matters might also depend on the users - unlike most tech users I know I use a VPN, use Bitdefender, use a password manager, sandbox my applications - there's a certain amount you can do yourself to protect your own interests.

This chart from the Telegraph was interesting📧
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/03/criminal-investigation-money-laundering-failings-monzo/#:~:text=A%20criminal%20investigation%20into%20Monzo,running%20investigation%20into%20the%20bank.

The chart specifically looks at APP fraud - this is where people are tricked into transferring money out of their account to fraudsters - it's not that their accounts or devices have been hacked; I do wonder if this is more a reflection on the demographic using the bank. It's surprising to see Starling in 2nd place right behind Monzo. One of the reasons I want to move from Barclays is the years of problems I've had with their algorithms stopping payments - and then not telling me or contacting me until days later when either I discover myself that a payment hasn't gone though or they leave a message on my phone. Most of the these problems were payment made to Wise to convert currency into Euros to pay friends and family - some to my family in France, others to friends in the Netherlands and Finland when we shared holiday costs. Some were for purchases made in Euros abroad for musical instruments bought from places like Slovakia and Germany.

So, in the space of a bout 15 minutes - we have opened two personal accounts with Monzo and a joint account and arranged for a transfer from Barclays; we have money accessible in other accounts and CC's if we have any problems with Monzo - this is the problem - we were used to using Starling - the app is fine. Monzo is new territory but my daughter has used them for several years and used the card in Peru, Vietnam, Thailand, India, Nepal, New Zealand, Singapore and Japan - as well as at home in the UK - she made use of the free railcard for the small fee applied to one variant of the Monzo account. We'll see. It's not what I wanted to do but I couldn't put up with Barclays and their crappy app any more.

It's a paradox isn't it - someone who needs credit is, apparently, on some level, a more attractive to a bank than someone who manages not to need it. I am beginning to think it is more about who they make the most money from.

Oh it absolutely is. Just like it’s really difficult to get a mortgage when it gets down to about 20k. They can’t make any money off you so they don’t bother.

Last winter we were gobsmacked to discover that NatWest wanted to lend us over x 5.5 my partner’s salary, whilst all around us people are struggling to feed their kids and my hairdresser is being forced through all sorts of ridiculous hoops to get a 145k mortgage because her own blinking lender insisted (apparently) she take a mortgage holiday during Covid and it wrecked her credit score. Everyone’s not able to lend as much, they want to recklessly chuck obscene amounts of money at us instead.

Of course they want to lend to us but not her. They would have got 440k in interest off that stupidly big mortgage if we were naive enough to take them up on their offer.

I've tried to apply for a single starling current account today and was turned down. I have a great credit score and history. Manage current lines of credit well to keep the score going. I wanted to open one so I could get my children (11 and 13) the kite cards as I've heard lots of positive things about them and EVERYONE I know seems to have a starling account and is happy with it. No idea why I've been rejected.

It's unexpected - odd - you wouldn't have thought it would be a problem.

Reading around I've gleaned that you are unlikely to get any explanation - it's best just to move on and not dwell on it - they are a law unto themselves. The Starling app is good - I've used it for 2 years and the facilities in the app met all of our needs - I believe they are a good bank with a good reputation. The customer services is supposedly good too however I found they were very quick to refer me into the 8 week complaint process - I think it's their way of telling you to go away - no one is going to wait for up to 8 weeks to get a meaningless reply to a simple question - I'm 18 days in now and they phoned me yesterday for "clarification"(+) of the nature of the complaint I was forced into making (because they couldn't/wouldn't explain why my wife was turned down for a joint account and wouldn't explain the eligibility requirements/issues - she also submitted her own complaint 18 days ago FWIW and not received any reply) - they won't tell you - they use a specious argument that it's to do with not wanting to reveal information about fraud detection/money laundering - I don't believe there is any truth in that - it's that you don't fall into their target demographic - they are looking for customers to exploit financially - it's their business model - nothing else - they just don't want to admit that.

I moved on to Monzo who did the switch in less than a week - the app (and it's facilities) is top notch - I have no complaints so far - I'm pretty pleased TBH.

(+) - "clarification!" I said - why? I've made it crystal clear what my complaint is - I don't think the "patsy" that rang me had read my messages before he rang me and if he did, he didn't make any effort to/was incapable of - understanding them: laughably bad IMHO.

So - 6 weeks in and Monzo have been faultless in transferring DD's over and their banking app is excellent. I can keep a £1k in my current account and shove the rest into an instant access savings pot with 4.2% interest and transfer money from the pot into the current account any time I like. The app gives useful notifications about money going in and out of the individual and joint accounts - ithe app is easy on the eye.

I actually use Chase for day to day spending and transfer £1500 pcm into from the Monzo Joint account to get the 1% on most of our day to day spending plus I have some money in their instant access saver at 5.1%. The bulk of my long term savings is in Atom which I have used for several years.

I keep coming across similar stories about Starling - about refusing joint accounts, the long winded way in which almost all questions/queries/complaints are handled by Starling. I'm of the opinion that the Credit Rating is not for the benefit of customers at all - it's for banks to profile customers - all Starling is doing IMHO is selecting the people they can make the most money from; it's business. Frankly I'm glad they forced me to move on to discover Monzo.