Bailiff - can’t stop crying

[Towybow]

So to start the past year has been stressful
my dog died - he was everything to me and we watched him die over a a week in the most horrible way.

on the day he died the first vet I took him to - who misdiagnosed him, called me about the insurance claim. They put it through and I consented to this. I ended up writing a complaint about their treatment it was horrid. I have a letter where they say they will reduce the treatment to £313 - I had confirmation from my insurance this was already claimed and so I never thought any more of it. I was wrapped up in grief. A month later mum was taken to hospital and she nearly died. She had a life changing injury and whilst she was in hospital I was dealing with some matters whucg turned out she had very bad mental health. She then suffered delirium for 4 weeks and as her only child and with family it did fall on me to visit each day on my own. I have a dd who also has her own struggles. She has severe asthma and we are both on pathway for adhd.
my mum was not in the best place when she came round and sadly I bore the brunt of it if there were days she struggled. There were days I wanted to just off myself. But I never would cos of my daughter.

in November I was out on a 2 week pathway for cancer whucg we still haven’t got to the bottom Of but a barium swallow was clear.

in March I sought treatment for my mental health as I have been really struggling I’m on medication now which has been hard.
I do struggle daily and have been to the doctors with 4th bout of bronchitis and still really suffering with a anxiwty and depression.

in March I started breathing space and working wit step change as my finances have got completely out of hand. Largely cos I forget and every day I’m fighting to just keep afloat I feel all alone in this world.
I had a letter from a solicitor about this debt, I was going to call the insurers and ask why not paid when I did they said I didn’t confirm it to be paid at the time. I didn’t have the energy to fight this because to be honest I just don’t know what’s happened. So I added it to my debts to be included in the debt management plan thinking I’ll just pay it because I don’t have the energy to fight it. It sounds stupid. It even speaking to people at the minute is a big hurdle. - oh in between all of this iv had to move my DD’s school because of how much she was struggling. She also is having difficulties in seeing her dad. -

so today a bailiff comes and says he’s collecting my items in 5 days - he says I’m to email breathing space and wouldn’t talk anymore - the letter says he’s coming in 5 days and will take my stuff and if that doesn’t cover the hill, which is now £2200 they will apply to make my bankrupt. Part of me doesn’t even care what they take now but I am scared of a man coming in and my daughter seeing that. I have previously experienced dv and I’m scared. Since he came in been crying and I can’t stop crying.
step change say to apply for a stay of execution but every where is shut. I can’t focus to add more inowed my mum some money from when my dog died and having to seek another vet opinion and from him being out to sleep and so she is taking a sleeve chunk of my wages each month I can’t even get through the melnth

I feel so tired and I don’t even know where to start
I want to seek support for my mental health but I’m scared as I work in a helping profession and if they think my mental health is bad they may tell my employer? I’m not sure I do feel at crisis though but I just don’t know what to di about any of it. Sorry for long post

Iv not had any court summons or any letters from the bailiffs. I have been opening my post since March and any new debts iv added to my plan

OP post on legalbeagles.info website. They don't need the backstory just the facts of the Debt, warrant type etc and they will advise you.

Did you let them in? They are like vampires, once they get in they can come back in but keep doors, windows and rear garden entries locked.

Look through the bailiffs national standards, did they adhere to these?

https://www.gov.uk › publications
Bailiffs and enforcement agents: national standards

It's very important that you email them with proof of mental health issues, this classes you as vulnerable and so they have to make reasonable adjustments which can include time to seek advice. Inform the courts too as they are responsible for the bailiffs they employ.

Ask the courts to cease enforcement activity and ask if you can make an arrangement direct with them, particularly effective if you can demo strate how the have not followed the national standards. The court may ask you to complete a form which resets the fine to when it was first made a CCJ. The bailiffs can't then chase the fees they added anymore either.

Unless this is a magistrates fine (which a CCJ is not - its a COUNTY COURT Judgement), they won't get any papers to force entry -
"Check if the bailiff can force entry
The bailiff could have the right to force entry to your home or business if they’re collecting:

unpaid magistrates court fines, for example if you were given a fine for not paying your TV licence

tax debts for HM Revenue and Customs, for example if you owe income tax

They’ll need to show you proof of what you owe and a 'warrant' or a document called a ‘writ’ from a court. Check any documents are signed and in date and have your correct name and address.

They aren't allowed to break down your door - they have to use 'reasonable force'. This means they'll have to come back with a locksmith who will unlock the door.

It’s very unlikely they’ll do this - you’ll usually still have time to make an offer to sort out the debt."
(C.A.B website).

They'll imply they can enter etc. which is a breach of the code of conduct, they can't imply they have a warrant to enter. Text or email the agent who attended the following:

You visited my home on XX at XX. You gave me a (name document). You stated you would send an enforcement team that will enter my property. Please send me a copy of the warrant that grants you permission to enter my home in any means other than by peaceful entry. Kind regards, (name).

I sent this once and got the reply beloe, they can't really ignore you and they won't mislead you in a written communication that is evidence so you may find they backtrack -

Bailiff - "I showed you a copy of the warrant when I spoke to you, I never said the enforcement team could force entry. However they don't need you permission to enter, enforcement agents can just walk in any unlocked property."

Fight this!!!

Mumsnet is great but you need the legal beagle forum to help you attack all angles.

Send your emails to the courts and bailiff re:vulnerability tomorrow and this could all be confirmed as 'on hold' by Tuesday evening.

Thank you this is really really helpful!

do I email the courts and enforcement agent company do you know?
ig been told to apply for a stay of execution but then read that is omitting ownership of debt whucg I don’t want to do either
should I just email the courts and ask them for a direct arrangement or to put on hold while I look into or will this need to be via a stay of execution
thank you so much really useful
ingormayij

Email the enforcement agent company.

Personally, I'd get the debt off bailiffs, back to 300, set a monthly payment plan up and THEN fight the origins of the debt by complaining to insurance and vets and then look to get the CCJ 'set aside'.

"If you do not owe the money, you can ask the court to cancel the county court judgment ( CCJ ) or high court judgment. This is known as getting the judgment 'set aside'. You can also do this if you did not receive, or did not respond to, the original claim from the court saying you owed the money."

https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-debt/cancel-the-judgment#:~:text=If%20you%20do%20not%20owe,saying%20you%20owed%20the%20money

I've PM'd you a letter you can customise for the first steps regarding vulnerability and bailiff conduct.

I don't think they can be high court bailiffs then, if the case hasn't been to court yet. They've sent a Notice Before Action as a threat, but haven't followed through with it. (Do do as someone mentioned and check with the court, just in case there was a summons but you somehow didn't receive it (I'm not even sure if that's possible, maybe it comes by signed for post for example?))

So if there's been no court case then although they may call themselves "bailiffs", all they are is debt collectors. They're trying to threaten you to get you to pay up because that's easier than going to court.

Previous poster is correct they can't apply for you to be bankrupt if the debt is less than £5k, which it is. So that's an empty threat designed to intimidate you into paying up.

All this basically means - they can't get blood out of a stone. If you can't pay you can't pay and there's nothing these debt collectors can do about it.

The company the debt collection works on behalf of (the vets, I presume) don't want to take you to court because it costs money and if you have no money, or much assets they could seize, it still won't result in the debt being paid. So they've resorted to scare tactics instead.

Oh and I just remembered 2 things.

• send proof you dont own the car, then if they clamp it they've done so illegally. Better to do this in advance than provide info in a panic while your car is clamped!

• in a separate email, request their bodycam footage. You probably won't get it but it means they know you could take them to court for it and prove anything they did wrong. Template - https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Template-GDPR-Bodyworn-camera-Attendance.html

Be a headache FOR THEM!

Thank you - so helpful. Can I get it set aside wotjout the form or it needs to be the form? As that costs 265

"Previous poster is correct they can't apply for you to be bankrupt if the debt is less than £5k, which it is. So that's an empty threat designed to intimidate you into paying up."

And national standards clearly state -

20. Enforcement agents must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their powers, qualifications, capacities, experience or abilities, including, but not restricted to;
 Falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when legally it cannot be taken by that agent
 Falsely implying or stating that a particular course of action will ensue before it is possible to know whether such action would be permissible
 Falsely implying or stating that action has been taken when it has not
 Falsely implying or stating that a debtor refusing entry to a property is classed as an offence.

So there's your basis to complain, and remind the courts that they are held responsible for the bailiffs they contract and their actions (but be diplomatic at this point!)

Creditors' Responsibilities

1. Creditors should remember that enforcement agents are acting on their behalf and that ultimately they are responsible, and accountable, for the enforcement agents acting on their behalf.

You may be able to get help with the fee.

https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees

If the vets or insurance are at fault you could insist they arrange this.

I haven't read all the thread, though I have read all your posts, OP. I see someone has recommended Christians Against Poverty and I wanted to second this. They were very helpful to my sister. You do not have to be religious and they will not press religion on you. The website says their telephone lines open at 9.30 on Tuesday. Best wishes, I hope things improve for you.

1. Creditors should remember that enforcement agents are acting on their behalf and that ultimately they are responsible, and accountable, for the enforcement agents acting on their behalf.

he was shouting all my details at my door I have some on film - I think he broke GDPR

And again re:court fees, if you can't get help through the link I provided maybe the charity above will pay.

This may be info overload but for the rest of your finances -

• Water

Do you or your child have medical needs that use more water I.e eczema?

Watersure bill reduction scheme
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/water/problems-with-paying-your-water-bill/watersure-scheme-help-with-paying-water-bills/

Low income schemes

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/water/problems-with-paying-your-water-bill/help-with-paying-your-water-bills/#:~:text=Special%20schemes,eligible%20for%20the%20Watersure%20scheme.

Debt clear scheme
My water supplier put me on a scheme that I paid a set rate for 12 months they halved my debt then at 24 months they wiped it - £2000

Gas and Electric
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/british-gas-energy-support-fund.html

These help even if your supply isn't with them. Check your own supplier for a grant too.

All those shitty dent collection agencies can be taken care of too but this takes a bit of time to get your head into -

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t5263-the-new-goodf-approach-please-read-this-first#41870

And you can even lodge complaints about the original creditors of irresponsible lending to AND be refunded and compensated for payments you made!!

https://debtcamel.co.uk/refund-doorstep-loans/

Look at this as a project, set up folders or spreadsheets. I went from 22k debt to 4k debt doing this. It took about 6 months to a year.

DON'T PAY ANYONE TO DO ANY OF IT FOR YOU.

Templates and advice is freely available on GOODF, debtcamel and legal beagles sites I've linked in my replies.

Presumably you didn't let them in, so they had to shout through the door - you were right not to let them in - but equally they had to do their job, hence shout. So GDPR is a non starter.

It doesn't sound like they are high court enforcement, likely just regular debt collectors.

Sort out a payment plan to get rid of them, then challenge the debt.

Do not let the bailiffs in your house under any circumstances, if they threaten to call the police, call their bluff.

Sorry you are going through this.

Can I just jump in (hope you don't mind OP) to say that posts like @MeAndMounjaro are the best of Mumsnet - helpful, practical and empathetic. It's so nice to see when things so often descend into a bun fight on here. Hope it all helps OP, you've had a terribly tough time and a run of rotten luck. Sending you lots of luck

Professionalism and conduct of the enforcement agent

19. Enforcement agents must act within the law at all times, including all legislation and observe all health and safety requirements in carrying out enforcement. They must maintain strict client confidentiality and comply with Data Protection legislation and, where appropriate, the Freedom of Information Act.

42. Enforcement agents should be trained to recognise vulnerable debtors, to alert creditors where they have identified such debtors and when to withdraw from such a situation. be appropriate to do so. Information and confidentiality

43. Enforcement agents/agencies and creditors must recognise that they each have a role in ensuring that the vulnerable and socially excluded are protected and that the recovery process includes procedures agreed between the agent/agency and creditor about how such situations should be dealt with. The appropriate use of discretion is essential in every case and no amount of guidance could cover every situation. Therefore the agent has a duty to contact the creditor and report the circumstances in situations where there is evidence of a potential cause for concern.

I agree

I can’t thank you all enough as this morning I felt so hopeless but it’s given me the support to make sense of this a bit more thank you all so much, ov had so much kindness and support on this post and I really needed it today

Wow you are the font of all knowledge on this

thank you
my dd has severe eczema asthma and allergies so this is very helpful

I've read through the whole thread and have no more advise but I'm sending you love and strength
You are going through such tough times yet are facing things head on and taking advice on board
You WILL be ok

You're welcome, I felt hopeless a few years ago and ended up down the rabbit hole on debtcamel and goodf and made it my goal to get rid of as much debt for free as I could. So many people end up on debt plans that make life miserable for years but there are other ways!

Any remaining stubborn debts could potentially be paid back by a grant - this website takes your information and let's you know who you may be able to get support from for all different scenarios

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/get-support/apply-for-grants

I must sleep now but the thread will stay on my 'I'm on list' so I'll be around if needed. I'm pretty passionate about fighting back and tirning things around as you can probably tell!!

For what its worth I think it's a disgrace, a real national shame that people, often the poorest in our society are able to be held to ransom by bottom feeders in the debt collection and legal profession who apply ridiculous amounts to debts for recovery, taking a debt of a few hundred to a few thousand.

I think it should be law that no debt can more than double in a calendar year, meaning the OPs debt would not be much over £600, that's still twice what it is claimed she owed.

The upshot of the bonkers system is people with effectively no money are pushed into a spiral of debt, bankruptcy etc. and the creditor never sees the money owed...

Hi OP,
I hope you can get the vet bill sorted - it sounds very unfair as you had insurance and had given the details.

I just wanted to say when you talk to Stepchange or Christians Against Poverty don't rule our bankruptcy if they recommend it depending on your circumstances.

I don't think you have disclosed how much debt you are in but if you can't make the payments and the debt is growing for example, or the number of years it will take to pay it off is unrealistic it might be a good option for you. If you are a homeowner/mortgaged the advisors might tell you it is not suitable for you.

If bankruptcy is a good option for you you can save the fee by stopping paying your debts for a month or two.

Don't rule bankruptcy out without exploring it is all I'm suggesting.

What was cancelled? I’m really confused. To break it down from what you’ve said

1. the claim was put in for the full amount
2. the vet offered you a reduction
3. you didn’t respond to the offer
4. they chased you saying there was not long to change the insurance claim and you again didn’t respond.

Seeing as you didn’t respond to the offer and didn’t ask for the claim to be cancelled, I don’t understand why the claim should just have been processed for the full amount. If the vet decided to tell the insurance company not to process the claim, that was on them. They contacted you asking you what you wanted to do. Zero communication from you imo (IANAL) means that they should have done nothing.

Did you contact the insurance company?

My heart is going out to you. I have been in your position and I know how draining it can be. Check out www.mind.org.uk they've got a lot of good advice on their website. CAP (Christians Against Poverty) really helped me. www.capuk.org. Have you thought about your local foodbank? They are there for people who are struggling. I've had to use our local one and it lifted a heavy weigh off my shoulders.
You really need to deal with the problem. I've seriously hid in wardrobes, behind the sofa etc when things were at their worst but when I found the strength to deal with it, it was a relief and to be honest not quite as bad as I feared. Speak to your GP and tell them about the situation and how ill it is making you.
I really hope you can get things sorted soon and that you can find some peace and joy again.

Anyone who has a bailiff turn up, never open your door, put the chain on & if you go to find paperwork, lock the door. Op, are you on medication for your mental health? If you are, speak to the bailiff company on the phone, tell them you have mental health problems & email them a picture of your medication, that is what I did & they returned the debt to the original company who gave the credit. I did this & they never contacted me again.

Good morning.

Another key piece of info I forgot, the Debt and Mental Health Form completed by a medical professional is the best evidence you can have and once you have it, it doesnt really expire.

Email it to your surgery with a brief explanation of what you would like them to share and maybe call them and explain the urgency. I didn't ask for a statement just my diagnosis on my mental health/mental health history so it was a quick form for them to do.

https://moneyadvicetrust.org/advice-services/dmhef/