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Original poster

Our landlord's a tosser, do we have any rights?

49 replies

WideWebWitch · 30/12/2004 15:34

We've been renting a house since Oct 03. It will do until we move to somewhere bigger, which we hope will be at the end of 05. We were renting through an agent, all fine.

In November 04 the landlord wrote us a crappy little handwritten letter (didn't even use our names) saying "we've ceased our contract with please send your cheque to this address by the xth of each month. A new contract is being drawn up and as soon as I have it I will send it on." The landlord, incidentally, came round once in about July when the boiler was broken, looked at it, said it needed replacing and only then admitted he was one of the landlords (they're a couple) - we'd been told a plumber was coming. Cheeky f*er but I suppose that's by the by, still, it didn't impress me. I wrote to them saying yes, I'll arrange a dd, please send me bank details. They wrote back with bank details (using our names this time) and saying 'sorry for delay, we have a baby and life is hectic'. Well, I don't care, I've got 2 children and I pay you rent so aaaggggh.

Anyway, I wrote back again (early Dec) saying happy to pay rent but only once we have a new written tenancy agreeement as we're sure you understand that we don't want to live here without anything in writing. So far we've held December's rent, due 1st Dec. It's there ready to pay to them when they comply. Anyway, we haven't heard from them and today our pilot light went off and we faced the prospect of no heating or hot water (sorry this is soooo boring I know). Tried all 3 numbers we have for them and no reply. Dp has managed to get it working but actually, the boiler needs replacing and they should have done it before now imo. It took dp ages and was a PITA. I'm pissed off but is there anything I can do other than write a letter saying they need

a) to provide a written tenancy agreement NOW
b) to provide a new boiler and emergency contact numbers

The letter I've written so far says (reasonably politely) sort it or we're moving out but I'm so bloody cross, any advice appreciated. TIA.

OP posts:

mooncrumbs · 30/12/2004 18:29

I think JudgeFlounce is refering to me, I know I am not qualified in this area, but have rented for many many years. Is it wrong then that a verbal contract of tenancy is binding? As I was not impyling that www didn't have a valid tenancy agreement, I said 'if'.
She stated that her Landlord had told her he was drawing up a new contract, implying that he himself assumed the old one invalid, making www assume the same. Again 'if' it wasn't valid as I stated before, would she have a contract with him then, just by him saying 'pay x amount on x date'? I assumed you had to hold a written contract of tenancy, 'if' I was unsure as to whether I had a valid contract I personally would not want to hand over the rent. I apologise if I came over wrongly. WWW I think you should go to the CAB regarding this!

mooncrumbs · 30/12/2004 18:31

Sorry that should have been 'right' not 'wrong'

JudgeFlounce · 30/12/2004 18:37

Message deleted

Pollyanna · 30/12/2004 19:18

Hi www, my dh is a property litigator and he says the following:

Read your lease, it is the basis of your relationship with your landlord. On the assumption that you have an assured shorthold tenancy (which you probably have) even if the term expired it continues until such time as either party give 2 months notice. you therefore have a right to remain in occupation under the terms of your existing lease.
under your lease, you probably agreed to pay rent without any deduction or set-off, you are therefore not legally entitled to withhold your rent. If you do so, the landlord could take action to recover the rent and/or to recover possession of the property. In either case, you will receive notice as the landlord will need to obtain a court order. At this time, you would be able to raise the issue of the defective boiler.
You need to check that the landlord has a corgi gas certificate. Obviously the most important thing is to ensure that the boiler is safe! The landlord has statutory obligations to keep the property in repair, however, you also need to check your lease. The fact that he is obliged, but has failed to comply, is of course of little value to you! You should therefore write to your landlord explaining the problems and remembering that any letter that you write is being sent with 2 purposes: firstly to convince your landlord and secondly, so you can show it to the court if necessary. The landlord has statutory obligations to provide you with a contact address - this should have been given to you at the outset or stated in the lease. If you send letters to that address you cannot subsequently be criticised by the court for failing to make contact unless you are aware of an alternative address. I suggest however you also copy the letter to the agent (the reason your landlord disinstructed them is probably because he would have been obliged to pay them a further fee if you renewed your lease - and probably remains obliged to do so!). If they fail to respond to your letter, I suggest you write again informing them that, in the absence of a response, due to their continuing breach you have no alternative but (and then you have to decide which of the following options)1. you will instruct a heating engineer to check the boiler and forward a copy of his report. If they then fail to comply with his recommendations you will instruct him to take the necessary steps and offset the cost against your rent. There are risks in doing so( assuming there is no set off or deduction allowed in the lease) however, the landlord would need to go to court to recover the rent (assuming he doesn't use your rent deposit) and it would be a harsh judge who did not allow this deduction in the face of continued refusal by the landlord to comply with his obligations. 2. you serve notice on the landlord to quit. He probably holds a deposit and you will need to decide how much rent to pay as you probably won't see the deposit again. Obviously the disadvantage of this option is that you will need to find a new home and will need to give 2 months notice (expiring on a rental payment day). Obviously if the boiler needs emergency replacement you will need to adopt a much quicker timescale.

Sorry if this is long, but hope it helps - the outcome will depend on the exact facts. I'm sure dh would look at any letter you want to send.

JudgeFlounce · 30/12/2004 19:32

Message deleted

Original poster

WideWebWitch · 30/12/2004 19:37

Thank you all very, very much. Dp managed to get the pilot light going so for now we have hot water and heating. We are staying with friends for new years eve anyway so that's ok for tomorrow night. We will pay the rent outstanding (Decembers) asap, maybe tomorrow, direct into their bank account and send a letter as pollyanna's dh suggests. Gawd, I hate renting! We really must sort out buying in the next couple of years.

OP posts:

JudgeFlounce · 30/12/2004 19:41

Message deleted

SofiaAmes · 31/12/2004 05:59

Maybe their baby is ill and they are stuck in hospital and can't get back to you right now. That happened to me once when my tenants in la called me with one of their many "emergencies." Turned out they had shoved too many cucumbers down the garbage disposal and stopped up the drain. Not that I'm suggesting that you don't have a real emergency, but maybe they have a valid reason for being out of reach for a few days.

And, I just had a thought. Is it possible that they meant a new contract with a new agent was being drawn up? rather than a new contract with you?...

SofiaAmes · 31/12/2004 06:03

Also, maybe pollyanna's dh could advise on this, but if it is a true emergency (like the pilot light can't be relit, or the water main breaks, or a socket starts sparking etc.), aren't you allowed to call in an emergency repairman (if you can't get ahold of the landlord) and deduct that amount off the rent.

Original poster

WideWebWitch · 31/12/2004 06:28

Thanks sofia, I know, maybe they do have an emergency but they've been so flakey to date...no, I think the contract is with them direct, they told dp they wanted to save on the agent's fees. Still, the heating is on now so fingers crossed it lasts til th enew year and then they'll replace the boiler.

OP posts:

JulieF · 03/01/2005 01:08

I work for a CORGI firm who issues gas safety certificates to landlords.

It will cost you but if you are at all concerned then you can call someone out yourself to do a gas safety check. It the boiler doesn't pass then your landlord HAS to do something straight away.

However you may find that a boiler may not work but still be safe iyswim so that wouldn't help you. It has to be dangerous to be condemmed. If that happened the engineer would turn it off. If you refuse to allow him to do that he would report the matter to Transco.

JudgeFlounce · 03/01/2005 11:13

Message deleted

JulieF · 03/01/2005 20:38

Yes, we do some domestic work, mostly servicing. A lot of the main work we do is industrial however in schools, hospitals anf factories.

Why do you ask?

JudgeFlounce · 04/01/2005 14:57

Message deleted

iota · 04/01/2005 15:01

JF - that's the problem with living in Cardiff. Now here in MK, skilled men are always available - we've just had OUR bathroom totally redone by an excellent man - planning to get him to do teh ensuite and downstairs cloakroom later this yr.

JudgeFlounce · 04/01/2005 19:36

Message deleted

JulieF · 04/01/2005 21:27

Sorry, we are nowhere near Cardiff! Travelling costs would make any quote extortionate. Actually cash in hand is one thing we don't do. Its just not worth losing everything over a bit of VAT.

The problem is that everyone sees plumbing as an easy way to make money these days, there are always articles about shortages etc. So Jo Bloggs goes and takes himself off to college to do a plumbing course, then sets up on his own. Of course he has zilch experience so when a big job comes along he doesn't know where to start.

Our men are all pipefitter/welders and gas engineers rather than basic plumbers. Its really hard to find proper courses to send our trainees on to get properly qualified (and mega expensive too).

sorry , I've gone off on a complete tangent havn't I?

JudgeFlounce · 04/01/2005 21:29

Message deleted

CarrieG · 04/01/2005 22:36

On the withholding rent issue - it really comes down to, are you going to be THAT bothered if the landlord gives you notice?

My rental property was sold & the new landlord wrote to me announcing his intention to hike the rent dramatically. I wrote back & said that I'd like him to carry out some essential repairs (I'd been hassling the agents for MONTHS), & then we could discuss a rent raise more in line with market rents.

He promptly gave me 2 months notice. So I went to see the agent & said look, I'm off asap to buy somewhere...this is a rip-off. I suspect it'll take more than 2 months...the landlord can choose whether to a) accept the existing rent in the interim, or b) start eviction proceedings to remove me as a non-rent paying squatter...

He huffed & puffed a bit before finally accepting option a), & I bought a house within 4 months - actually, I'm glad it happened as it was pure inertia that kept me in the rented place!

You suggested that you'd actually be prepared to move? I'd take a relatively hard line then...my understanding is it would take MONTHS to chuck you out if you withhold your rent, & it would certainly concentrate the buggers' minds a bit. I know it weakens your security of tenure, but if you're prepared to up sticks anyway, that might not be the end of the world?

JudgeFlounce · 05/01/2005 08:24

Message deleted

weightwatchingwaterwitch · 05/01/2005 08:27

No time but he's said he will get someone to look at boiler but he'd rather not replace it as 'we're skint' Not my effing problem tbh, if my landlord's broke so I will be writing a stern letter citing the acts the Judge told me about earlier in this thread. And I am prepared to move if he doesn't sort it.

Momof2 · 06/01/2005 14:47

WWW, I know this doesn't actually resolve the issue here with your landlord but I am sure you are fairly local to me and DP is a plumber - can we help at all fix it or are you up and running now? Hate to think of you without heating or hot water at this time of year (and DP wouldn't expect paying or anything)
Momof2

weightwatchingwaterwitch · 06/01/2005 14:50

You're very kind momof2! Thank you. Can I call on you maybe if it actually breaks and landlord isn't around? Atm it's all working, thank goodness. And I must chase him and remind him he needs to get it checked and pronounced safe.

Momof2 · 06/01/2005 14:53

Absolutely you can - CAT me and I will give you our number (I finish work in a couple of weeks time and don't have access from hoome yet) then just in case he can nip over. (We are in Yate - think that's fairly close to you?)

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