What happens if a company that you think owns a road that needs fixed up doesn't exist any more?

[Linnet]

I live in a street where the road and footpaths are unadopted by the council. Some of the houses are owned by a Housing Association some are privately owned. The HA only own the houses, not the road and footpaths. the owners have no resposibility in their title deeds for the upkeep of the road.
The road is in a bad way and getting worse every year so the residents are trying to find out who owns the road, so we can ask them if they'll fix it up.

The houses were built back in the 1920's by Church Army Housing Ltd then sold in the 1980's to the HA.

I've tried to find the Church Army Housing by googling them but all I'm getting are individual towns church action groups or housing groups.

Is there any way to find out what happened to this Church Army Housing Ltd, I'm assuming that they've now closed down or been broken up into regional groups or something. If they own this land and they no longer exist who is then responsible for the upkeep?

Thanks for any advice.

there should be some record somewhere of who owns every tiny square inch of land. can the land registry not help?

I have the title deeds for when the Church army housing bought the land to build the houses in the 1920's, they bought the land and promised to develop it into housing. I also have the title deeds of the HA buying the dwelling houses from the Church army housing in the 1980's, they don't mention the road or footpaths though.

So presumably the Church army housing still own the road, having not sold it onto the HA.

But if the Church Army Housing Ltd don't exist any more who then owns the land?

Land is only registered after a certain year - 1926 I think off the top of my head - so unless there is a trigger for it being registered such as it being sold to a new owner, it might very well be unregistered. Huge swathes of Civil List land will forver remain unregistered unless we become a republic. Not that this helps in your instance.

Have you contacted the local council to see if they know? Is there refuse collections taken down it for instance?

There was a similar situation to this a few years back in the West Midlands, I believe.

The council don't own it, won't maintain it and won't even grit the road in the winter. I've just been checking their list of roads that they own on their website but we're not there, didn't think we would be.

Yes refuse is collected every week, also paper recycling and gardening recycling.

It was 1927 that the church army housing aquired the land.

that's interesting Desiderata.

The HA did offer to get the road brought up to standard so that the council would adopt it and they asked the owners to pay a share of the costs and the HA would cover the tenants. But some of the owners refused to pay a share so the work didn't go ahead. the owners have obligation to pay a share as it's not in their title deeds, but you'd have thought they would have been glad to get it fixed.

by sanctioned I take it you mean they didn't ask for planning permission?

If so that's also interesting as the HA has put in driveways at some of it's properties and they asked the council for planning permission, residents were surprised at this seeing as the council don't own the road.

The only thing I can suggest right now is ask your local CAB office or if your local university run an advice shop from the law dept (loads do pro bono work to stretch their students with some RL cases), ask them for some free advice. Make sure that a land law lecturer will supervise any of their findings though. It's interesting that the council are happy to send works vehicles down a road they don't maintain - supposing their vehicles are damaged down that route, due to poor maintenance? They'd want to know who to sue for repairs .

That's right, Linnet. They didn't ask for planning permission, because they'd asked the council for advise repeatedly, and were roundly ignored.

Ultimately, they just went ahead and did it. People power.

That left the council in a difficult position. They had refused to acknowledge the road, so once the road was repaired with the tenants money, they either ripped it up, or let it be.

It was adjudicated that they should let it be, by the courts.

English Law is established only by precedent, so I assume that the case I'm bringing up here would make it possible for anyone else to do the same.

And yes, the problem in your case, Linnet, lies with the fact that some of the residents don't want to pay.

Everyone must be in on it, or it's no deal.

Ah, another idea - have you contacted your MP to help point you in the right direction? They can often pull strings with official bodies which ordinary people are baulked by.

LaComtesse, the group did contact our local MP but all he did was write to the council and we got it in writing from the council that they don't own the road and will not maintain it.
But they did upgrade the street lights as lighting was inadequate so they were duly replaced along with others out on the main street, we're in a cul-de-sac.
So the council will maintain and replace the street lights and send the bin lorry in to empty our bins but they don't own it.

Yes Desiderata, some owners didn't want to pay their share and as they have no legal obligation to pay as it's not listed in their title deeds that they have any responsibility for the road or footpaths, they couldn't be forced.
Funnily enough though it's the owners who do the most moaning about the state of the road!

you can search at the land registry to see if the title to the land is registered. The date of compulsory first registration is different from region to region. The Land Registry website has a leaflet that will give you the date for your area. You need to find out, if you can, who owns the road before you check Companies House, but this will really only be possible if the road is registered land. You might need to do a Search Of The Index Map by post - you can down load the SIM form from the Land Registry website and attach a plan with the road shown highlighted or edged red. That will give you a title number, if there is one, and then you can get official copies of that title number for £8.

If the land is not registered that is tricky. You can find out if the company exists or not, but you have no way of knowing whether the company sold the land before it ceased to exist.

The Companies House website will tell you if the company still exists. Remember to look under dissolved names and former names as well. If the company no longer exists, any property it had at the date of its dissolution goes to the Crown. The legal description of this is "bona vacentia". It is then dealt with by the Treasury Solicitor. This is a long and slow process which I cannot recommend. However if you are patient and persistent you should be able to persuade them to transfer the road to somebody or something - I would suggest a company in which each resident/ the housing association owned a proportionate share. The T/Sol will ask for money, but you need to tell them at the moment the road is a liability not an asset and they should not charge. There is a statutory duty to get best value for the Crown but it is possible to persuade them the value is nil.

It is possible for any person to apply to the Council for a road to be made up under the Highways Act. I am afraid I cannot remember the relevant section of the Act off the top of my head. The Council then make up the land and the frontagers have to contribute whether they like it or not. This can be unpopular with the frontagers, who all have votes, so if there is significant opposition, or even any, the Council are not likely to make the order.

Your other option is to improve the road yourself at your own expense, with neighbours. If you have a right of way over a piece of land you have a common law (from cases decided by the court) right to maintain and even improve the surface of it. There is no need to seek the consent of the road's owner, unless your title deeds say so expressly (this would be unusual). As it is a private road the work does not have to be done to adoptable standards, so it will be cheaper than if the Council does the work. You will always get people who will not contribute but then enjoy driving over the improved road. I think that is just life, and the trick will be to keep that number to a minimum.