NHS Privatisation/Reform

[JLArthur]

What does everyone think of privatisation of our NHS system? As someone that is in complete support of privatisation, paid prescriptions and appointments to alleviate pressure on our healthcare system I'm interested in what others think. I feel like we have no alternative, no money, not enough resources and skilled healthcare professionals are available, many are choosing to work over seas.

Unless you're destitute or an immigrant/asylum seeker in need of immediate medical assistance on arrival then we should be paying for the healthcare and prescriptions received. Whether that's paid for by private insurance policy or without. With private treatment you'll benefit from reduced waiting times, more time to talk to your doctor, less time in waiting rooms and you sometimes be assigned a case worker who will support you through treatments.

The majority of developed countries AREN'T the US and have partially privatised/partially insured/partially govt funded schemes.

Why is the "we don't want to be like the US" always trotted out!

How about looking at Canada, Australia and other European Countries as an alternative.

After all, no other country has copied the UK's free for all NHS system. If it was that good, and sustainable, other countries would have copied us!!

The answer is some kind of part payment backed by an insurance system when everyone pays a small amount for each treatment, some or all of which is refunded by insurance, some portion of the treatment costs being underwritten by the government.

The NHS will never survive and is just an inefficient leaky bucket that will suck up our entire GDP eventually without reform.

The NHS isn't free. It's free at the point of contact.

How do you think other countries manage? It needs to be looked at but it can’t be free forever. I’m not suggesting a US system, the standard of care is falling.

Totally agree with you.

I love all these posters supporting payment for services like doctors appointments, A&E etc.

And what about the people that don't have a spare £50/£200 whatever. And, you're working on the assumption that paying at the point of service will get you better treatment.

Money doesn't always equate to skill and ability (I'd be bitter to pay my last consultant' a feeas he had all the charm and skill as a sulky teen - maybe he keeps it for his private patients).

Be careful for you wish for. Especially with the current government.

Wow, shocked anyone thinks this is a good idea.

In Italy a pack of generic ibuprofen or paracetamol is 5 euros. In the U.K. over the counter eg in Boots/ supermarkets it’s 50p thanks to the NHS bargaining power which helps lower price for private sector too. My family in Ireland complain about the expense of generic OTC meds too.

So we would really feel the absence of the NHS in our wallets. I don’t think people realise how lucky we are!

It’s going to happen. Have you spoken anyone that works in the NHS?

Are you proposing that everyone pays an additional £30 per month on top of what they are currently paying in tax? Will that be enough? Who should be exempt from paying? Should anyone pay more?

@JLArthur I’m in a senior nhs role - it may change but not like America. We’re fighting it.

We are t lucky, the level of care is awful. Three weeks to see a GP!

Other countries manage as they some form of part payment/insurance system. This works as government's still often negotiate fixed costings for treatment. Unlike a pure private system that effectively can charge what they want. And insurance companies who will refuse to cover exciting conditions or treatments as they deem them to experience regardless of weather you need them or not.

I might be wrong on this but do Americans pay as much tax as we do? They then don't get the benefits we get such as free health care. The NHS is on its knees but it's a lifeline. I don't think many people would be able to pay. £200 for a visit to a&e? What if you don't have a spare couple of hundred quid knocking around? What do you then?

The underlying concept of free at the point of use healthcare was to avoid the situation whereby the poor were unable to access healthcare.

The problem with making anything free though is that people will always over use it (for example when supermarket carrier bags were free then shoppers took loads, introduce a 5p or 30p charge then demand fell 90%).

So when free, demand for healthcare will always exceed supply. But without price or cost the only way to control demand is through queuing (for example you could see this in Communist countries where when prices for food or clothing were held artificially low then people simply queued for hours).

Sadly we now have a system that had replaced a healthcare system which the financially rich could access and the financially poor struggled to with one where the time rich can access but the time poor struggle to.

The answer has to lie somewhere in the middle where there is a small charge for a GP appointment or ambulance call out or a visit to A&E.

Politically this will never happen as no politician would ever get elected on such a policy. Instead the NHS will continue to be unable to meet demand regardless of how much money is spent, and the service will continue to decline and queues continue to lengthen.

Then I guess no appointment but something needs change!

The problem with making anything free though is that people will always over use it (for example when supermarket carrier bags were free then shoppers took loads, introduce a 5p or 30p charge then demand fell 90%).

That is interesting to know.

How do you propose to make it 'fair'?

I'm not sure most people realise the true the cost of private care. It's prohibitively expensive. Insurance is expensive but is affordable (for some) because the cost is balanced by low risk. Remove that risk limiter and prices very quickly skyrocket. Suddenly you're comparing hospitals to see whether your hip replacement might be cheaper at a hospital with slightly less good outcomes? No thanks.

Why is the "we don't want to be like the US" always trotted out!

Because that’s what we’re sleepwalking into. There’s no national conversation- the Tories don’t want one. They just want the US system with the NHS turning into Medicare.

So they are denied healthcare because there poor? Surely that isn't the answer? I agree though something does need to change.

@JLArthur nope … not a 3 week wait to see a GP if urgent in my area. My family has had no issues accessing all types of care from GP, A&E and specialist eg gastro, cancer. Except elderly care at home - district nursing for dying parent was poor (due to demand).

Sure there’s been a wait of a few months, but our experience has been pretty good. I know there are long waiting times and it is awful for some in pain. But the vast majority are getting good care esp esp if it’s life threatening. I’m not confident private would be better… there is a lot they can’t offer and you’re often safer in NHS care for certain conditions.

I work in a senior role in the NHS and it’s a fucking stupid idea.

I have private cars and it’s not as expensive as you might think. The difference in care and promptness is amazing. You say “no thanks” but it’s heading away from completely free - that’s for sure! It needs to be looked at.

It’s not free. We pay for it with our taxes. We just don’t pay enough - as you have pointed out.

Why will privatisation make healthcare more efficient?

If the NHS had been privatised years ago then I'd be dead. No doubt about it.

I have a serious long term health condition which means I've had 5 surgeries up to now, plus I take 4 different types of prescription medication every day (I have a prepayment certificate at the moment so pay monthly).

I also had to have serious reconstructive surgery after a car accident, without which I would have been permanently disfigured. My mental health was damaged enough by the temporary change in my appearance.

And that's without having to pay for the therapy and treatment to deal with past trauma, without which I'd probably have ended my life by now.

So abso-fucking-lutely not

Other countries look at us and think we’re idiots.