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What should we do?

46 replies

Thehouseofmarvels · 29/01/2024 22:59

My fiancés gran died in 2012. She had three children, his mother, R, his aunt, S and a son J, with downs syndrome. In 2006 she wrote a will. It said that when she died, that R could choose live in her house to visit J in his care home until he died. She had to move in within 6 months. R was 19 when J was born and was not close to him but she convinced her mother she had seen the error of her ways and would make up for lost time. When Gran died R immediately tried to rent out Gran's house, and it became clear she had lied about wanting to develop more of a relationship with her brother. S and R fell out and R quickly stopped visiting J. The will created a trust. The trust must be ended when R either chose not to live in the house or J dies. When the trust is ended, one third of the sale price of the house should go to S, one third would go to J if alive or family members of the trustees choice if deceased. One third would go to R and her children but could be divided any way the trustees see fit. S and a solicitor are trustees. R did not move in or do any repairs and the house has sat empty for 11 years. S did nothing despite being a trustee as she stopped speaking to her sister and found the idea of trying to get the keys back too stressful. She struggles with anxiety. The solicitor went along with whatever she wanted. J has now died, and she has finally got the keys back. R had not seen her brother in over a decade and did not attend the funeral. S told her cousin that she intends to divide things 50/50 between her and her sister and will not involve grandchildren as ' it's best to keep things simple as the whole situation stresses me out '. The cousin pointed out that R is in her 80s and her half might get spent on care home fees but S said ' what R ends up spending her money on has nothing to do with me'. The only grandchildren are my fiance and his siblings as S could not have children. He is not currently speaking to any of his immediate family and neither is S, for unrelated reasons. We are currently saving up to buy a house, get married and have a baby. S has no other family, is mid seventies and lives in a 6 bedroom house in a rural area. We suspect she has some expectations that we will care for her when she is elderly as she has nobody else. As she is choosing to give half of the family trust fund to my fiancés abusive mother that he doesn't speak to, should we tell her we refuse to do anything for her when she needs care? Both his parents were abusive, and she knew that her sister's husband was battering her sister and the kids, but she chose to stay out of the situation as she didn't believe she should get involved in someone else's marriage/ family problems. Fiancé saw her once a year at Christmas despite the fact she lived 3 or four miles away, however he has built a relationship with her as an adult. We aren't sure if refusing to help her when she is old is fair, because she has one elderly cousin and us, but we are really disappointed she couldn't help us from the estate with the cost of a house deposit. We have not spoken to her about this directly as we do not want to be grabby plus she is very stubborn when she makes her mind up. When she is in her 80s and likely to need help, we will have small children.

OP posts:
MercanDede · 30/01/2024 00:45

Your fiancé has been through so much. I really feel for him and your situation.
I agree it’s best not to mention money. Keep the two separate. Your priorities are each other and your future children. Many adults from loving families can’t care for their elderly relatives, and that is ok. Sadly it’s the abusive or abuse complicit that put such expectations on their descendants and practice emotional blackmail to make them do the caring job for them in old age. I wish you the very best

Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 00:47

@ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees Because my partner is disabled with mental and physical health issues. Can't drive. I am 31 and fit and healthy. It concerns me because caring for an elderly person is likely to fall on me. If we are not blunt with her she's not going to make alternative arrangements. She's dropping hints that she's hoping we will always be there for her as she gets older.

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SoupAnyone · 30/01/2024 00:54

Why are you tangling up S's possible future care with an inheritance S has chosen to split 50/50 between her and her sister? Perhaps S will leave you her estate? Perhaps not. Perhaps R will leave you something? Perhaps not. You are clouding two separate issues and coming across as manipulative and grabby for money.

Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 00:56

@MercanDede Yeah will probably just say to her that we can't afford for me to give up the side job which means he can't help either as he needs to be driven to hers. He's often had issues with people expecting a lot from him due to how kind and sweet he is. When he was still speaking to his mother years ago she announced that his sister was splitting with her husband and he wasn't being a good dad. She said her and his sister had decided that he should help his sister by being her daughter's new Dad. His sister and him do not speak due to her abusive behaviour ( she copies her parents) and he has never met this child. He was not going to agree to us being used for free free childcare for a child we have never met and refused which resulted in his mother shouting and swearing at him. He cut contact.

OP posts:
Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 00:58

@SoupAnyone It's more about whether we should provide elderly care for S. Legally she can choose to help us from the estate. She has dropped hints about us helping her in the future.

OP posts:
Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 01:00

@SoupAnyone She knew that my fiancé was being abused as a child but chose not to her involved and is choosing not to help us now when she can. She lives in a six bedroom house in a rural area and is 75. Should we feel guilty if we do not help her out is the question.

OP posts:
ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees · 30/01/2024 01:01

Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 00:47

@ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees Because my partner is disabled with mental and physical health issues. Can't drive. I am 31 and fit and healthy. It concerns me because caring for an elderly person is likely to fall on me. If we are not blunt with her she's not going to make alternative arrangements. She's dropping hints that she's hoping we will always be there for her as she gets older.

But they are all seperate issues.

This about you wanting money. You've said as much but are now trying to intertwine it woth other matters.

MixedPeel27 · 30/01/2024 01:03

Literally you are tangling up care and inheritance again.

You have many valid reasons for not providing care and that's perfectly reasonable.

Separately S has no obligation to pass the inheritance with you so stop questioning whether she should or could. It's her choice.

If you don't help because you can't then there's no reason to feel guilty. ask yourselves, if there was no inheritance would you help her?

MercanDede · 30/01/2024 01:04

Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 00:56

@MercanDede Yeah will probably just say to her that we can't afford for me to give up the side job which means he can't help either as he needs to be driven to hers. He's often had issues with people expecting a lot from him due to how kind and sweet he is. When he was still speaking to his mother years ago she announced that his sister was splitting with her husband and he wasn't being a good dad. She said her and his sister had decided that he should help his sister by being her daughter's new Dad. His sister and him do not speak due to her abusive behaviour ( she copies her parents) and he has never met this child. He was not going to agree to us being used for free free childcare for a child we have never met and refused which resulted in his mother shouting and swearing at him. He cut contact.

I think that’s a good idea. Lucky he has you to look out for him. He sounds quite vulnerable to being taken advantage of by his toxic family.

JollyHostess101 · 30/01/2024 01:13

Or she could pass away unexpectedly or peacefully in her sleep and not need any care whatsoever?

I cared for my dad because he was my dad not because I expected anything from him you say you won’t be grabby but that’s exactly what you’re sounding like!

Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 01:13

@ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees My brother is a solicitor and did say that as a beneficiary of this particular type of discretionary family trust, beneficiaries would normally have the legal right to ask for money. That's how trust funds work. Some family have a trust fund where it's like a pot of money that can be given to various members. Two thirds of the will works like that, it's just that S thinks R will kick off if she gets less than half. Gran included her grandchildren in the trust in case they needed help, they were included deliberately. We politely accept S decision, and will tell her we can't afford to look after her when she is old.

OP posts:
Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 01:15

@JollyHostess101 Is it grabby to refuse to help his aunt when she is older ?

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Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 01:21

@MercanDede He has been taken advantage of by so many people. I won't be surprised if his aunt gets huffy if we say that we care never going to afford to look after her and acts like we are hinting for money. However I do sewing alterations and children's party entertainment on working as an art teacher. Each party is 150 quid but after I need most to rest of the weekend to rest. I think we just need to be firm that we are not hinting just stating facts. We have yet to even buy a home or afford a wedding.

OP posts:
JollyHostess101 · 30/01/2024 01:22

Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 01:15

@JollyHostess101 Is it grabby to refuse to help his aunt when she is older ?

It just sounds like you’d be more willing to “care” if you see some of the inheritance- apologies if this ain’t the case but that’s how it’s coming across!

Surely you don’t need to have a full on conversation about what you can and can’t do now it just evolves over time depending on the needs of the situation!

With my Dad I did what I could (moving down with 3 month old baby) and when I physically/mentally couldn’t do it we sourced a solution at that point- it was a bit of a moveable feast as we had no idea when and what he’d need!

mamacorn1 · 30/01/2024 01:41

you do not have to have any conversation about her care as she gets old, she has money and she will have state care from adult social care services.
this “cash for care” that is being implied is awful. If you want to be kind, you won’t be getting paid. You also sound angry you are not being helped with money that is someone else’s inheritance. I think you need to accept she was left money by her mother to share with siblings and this is what she is doing. The whole thread reads badly.

NewJeans · 30/01/2024 01:58

This is such a non issue. You are being grabby to even have thought of inheriting. You don't want to provide care for this woman for reasons unrelated (supposedly, you're not that convincing TBH) to the inheritance, ie because she colluded in the abuse of your fiancé. There's no more thoughts needed on the subject.

You don't want to provide care, so don't. You don't need to justify it to fiance's aunt or anyone else. If social services, fiance's aunt or other relatives ask you to in the future that is the point at which you say no. The decision doesn't have to be fair, you're the ones who have to be happy with your decision. You're in control of your own lives and can do or not to whatever you want.

There's also no need whatsoever to tell fiance's aunt in advance, telling her won't change the outcome for her and unnecessarily upsets her. Which is why I don't believe you that this isn't about you being grabby over inheritance. Looks to me like you want to punish his aunt for not sharing out the inheritance in a different way and giving you some.

NewJeans · 30/01/2024 02:15

Thehouseofmarvels · 30/01/2024 00:47

@ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees Because my partner is disabled with mental and physical health issues. Can't drive. I am 31 and fit and healthy. It concerns me because caring for an elderly person is likely to fall on me. If we are not blunt with her she's not going to make alternative arrangements. She's dropping hints that she's hoping we will always be there for her as she gets older.

Unless she is specifically asking you something practical like "will you care for me in old age or shall I buy a retirement flat with carer's on site?" you have no need to discuss anything with her. There's no arrangements for her to make if she's planning on staying where she currently lives.

The time for making arrangements is when she actually needs care, if she ever does. The making of those arrangements doesn't have to involve you at all. You can ignore hints and refuse to be drawn into a conversation about it. She's not your family she's your fiance's family anyway. If she colluded in his abuse she's lucky he is still speaking to her at all.

You're trying to take control of a situation that you don't need to have control over. Your fiance's aunt's potential care needs are her business, not yours or your fiance's business. You're overthinking it all, just step back and let the aunt live her life.

Throwawayme · 30/01/2024 02:56

If you don't want to provide care, then don't. This is perfectly reasonable and understandable.

The inheritance isn't yours or your fiances. The trustee divided the funds as she saw fit and as was her right. This has never been your fiances money and honestly if his gran wanted to include grandchildren, she'd have done so, directly. You are being greedy and the implication tht you would care for the aunt of she gave you money is really unpleasant. Just live your life and stop thinking about it.

laclochette · 30/01/2024 08:42

As others have said, you're tangling two issues.
If you have too much on your plate to care for an elderly relative, then don't. Don't get drawn into hints and obviously don't make any misleading hints yourself.

R can use her inheritance as she wishes and that may include spending it on care. How her care is funded, should she need it, is her decision. You are saying that her sister should hand you some money, in a direct and personal capacity, to free you up to provide care.

Why on earth would that happen? Why would your fiancé be given some of his grandmother's money, instead of it going to her daughter directly, on the hope and promise that this would free you - who is not even a blood relative and not yet even legally part of the family - to provide care for that daughter? It's far too risky, as well as unfair. You could perfectly easily pocket it and not do anything for R; you two could split up, and it sounds like your fiancé could not himself take on a caring role .. (I'm not saying you would, but as trustees, it's a clear concern.) It makes absolutely no sense: it makes much more sense to give R the money, so she can pay for care directly if need be - other than for the fact that clearly you want the money.

If you were really concerned about R being cared for in her old age, you'd want her to get as much cash as possible, to pay for it. If you don't care about her, as she's been abusive to your fiancé (entirely justified), don't pretend to. But neither of those circumstances lead to you deserving the money!

Propertylover · 30/01/2024 14:43

@Thehouseofmarvels you need to split this into 3 separate issues.

  • inheritance: accept the trustees are going to split it 50:50.
  • caring for S: Simply explain you are not in a position to provide care and that there are a range of options to help her as she needs it. Just be a broken record e.g. we don’t have the capacity to help, have you tried home instead, Age UK etc. Do not let S bully you or try to buy you.
  • visiting S & maintaining a relationship: You are doing this now, this is separate to caring and S will look forward to the occasional contact and visits.
Firm boundaries are needed otherwise you will run yourself into the ground.
laclochette · 30/01/2024 17:31

Sorry, my post confused S and R at some points but the point stands whichever of his aunts you're talking about

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