Help needed re: probate and trust

[StrictlyNecessary]

MIL has passed away and neither DH or I have any experience of dealing with probate.

She placed her house in trust many years ago for DH and his brother. I presume we need a solicitor to deal with this? They haven't worked out her cash assets yet, but they're definitely under £200k; should DH/his brother apply for probate themselves for her estate and see a solicitor about the trust only?

Any advice at all will be welcomed as we're completely clueless!

your solicitor won’t be able to tell you if probate is needed as this varies between financial institutions. Talk to your MILs banks first if needed you can then apply pretty easily through the government website.

Before you engage a solicitor check the land registry for a few pounds. You have not said who is executor they would be ones to apply for probate. There is lots of help from the probate office to apply for probate online unless it’s a very complicated estate don’t jump straight to a solicitor as if you use them make sure you get fixed price and know exactly what they are engaged for. Don’t agree to signing over a percentage of the estate to a probate solicitor it can cost you thousands of pounds. Sorry but when people are clueless often well meaning professionals can take advantage of families.

As well as the Executor, do you know who the Trustees of the Trust are?

@Wolfpa DH and brother are the executors. They've had POA for some time, so already have access to all of her finances. We just haven't worked out exactly what's what yet, and need to check on value of investments etc.

@Avidreader12 being taken advantage of is exactly what I'm afraid of so any tips on here will help. What exactly am I checking the land registry for?

DH and his brother are Executors and Trustees.

The deeds on land register will show you the legal ownership of the property. a trust can be created at the time when the property is purchased or deeds changed usually though these type of trusts the multiple legal owners would know ie by agreeing to a deed of trust a restriction would be showing as no deposition by a sole proprietor of the estate. If there is a existing debt against the property the charge would also show.

Your DHs POA will have lapsed upon the death of their DM. If she had investments probate will most likely be required. Solicitors will expect you to send them all the financial paperwork then fill in the form that DH could do himself.
I suggest Dh makes an appointment with a solicitor for advice only, but try to avoid being suckered into letting the Sol be the executor - they will charge a fortune!
there’s an excellent forum on moneysavingexperts
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/deaths-funerals-probate
I found it very useful when I had to apply for probate.

Trust work is complicated and the tax consequences are a specialist subject. That's the reason there are experienced professionals with the requisite specialist knowledge which you pay for to ensure the matter is handled properly.
Equally there are professionals you will undoubtedly have to pay to help when your lack of knowledge causes unforeseen problems.

'Well meaning professionals taking advantage'..... Surely an oxymoron?

🙄

Thanks for the info about the land registry; I've just bought it, and DH and his brother are the registered owners. So what happens to the trust now? I expect he should contact the company who created the trust?

If she put the house in trust then still lived in it without paying a market rent, this affects the position on inheritance tax. It would be a gift with reservation of benefit and included in her estate and therefore need to be included as an estate asset.

Basically, there is almost never a good reason to do this (it doesn’t prevent inheritance tax or care fees) and it will be a mess to unpick. Alternatively, if she did have good reason or did pay market rent (that your DH and his BIL paid income tax on), that needs to be properly recorded on the various government documents (probate, tax etc).

It may not mean tax is due - there are various allowances (MIL’s, her husband’s if she was ever married, an exemption for a house left to her children) but it needs to be sorted.

The executors will need a good probate lawyer. Since there may be an issue around whether the house should be included in the probate application, I would suggest speaking to the lawyer before applying.

https://www.ukpropertyaccountants.co.uk/gift-with-reservation-of-benefit/

https://www.willsjacobsen.co.uk/iht-new-rules#

there’s a checker on the probate website for whether you need to apply for probate. I would say you do, given the size of the estate and the fact there’s a trust. But before you can apply you need to establish valuations and whether there is IHT to pay. Again, because of the trust, this calculation is not straightforward. So in your shoes I would find a small-ish firm of accountants who have experience in this area, not to act as executors but for advice to the executors as to (a) the process and (b) the tax. You may need a solicitor at some point re the trust. If the executors have managed to establish a rapport with the accountants then their recommendation for a solicitor can be followed.

yes, professional advice costs money but there is money in the estate and this process has to be done properly - otherwise the executors are personally liable.

@Bowbobobo
Can you tell me where this checker is?

My sons are looking into whether their dad (my ex) has not been entirely honest in dealing with his fathers estate.

In view of your last update I strongly recommend your son’s get legal advice. It may cost, but a 3rd party legal professional can help keep emotion etc. out of the situation making a resolution easier.

This is on the .gov.uk website

In terms of the bank accounts savings every bank company has different rules for the amount that triggers the need to apply for probate. You need the date of death values if there are multiple accounts/ banks best to keep a spreadsheet to keep note of who you have contacted, when you contact the individual banks and inform them of the death they often require the original death certificate then they will give you the values. If any of them require probate in order to release the funds then you will need to obviously apply for probate. You need to check if MIL share of the property needs to be included in the estate, if the land registry shows DH and BIL as registered owners rather than trustees then they own it not a trust therefore this suggests there is no trust to wind up.

https://www.gov.uk/update-property-records-someone-dies

I believe your MIL is still showing as a owner on the property and if so A solicitor would be able to help with updating the land registry. Or above link has advice in removing a joint owner.

That's really helpful- I do hope you're right! Will update when we know more.

This is brilliant! Thank you.