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The state pension won’t suddenly stop, will it?

237 replies

TeapotCollection · 18/10/2023 14:12

I’m 51. We were talking about pensions at work and someone who’s about to retire said there’d probably be no state pension when I retire

This can’t happen can it? I can imagine the government saying in a few years that anyone born after <date> won’t get it but surely it can’t suddenly stop?

OP posts:
OrderOfTheKookaburra · 19/10/2023 01:38

@FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper

But there are a lot of people who don't earn minimum income and still don't save for the future. What is so wrong about making them save? The gradual rate at which it was introduced meant that it didn't affect income rates, the companies paid out the compulsory super payments on top of the income. And by gradual I mean 40 or so years.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 19/10/2023 01:43

But there are a lot of people who don't earn minimum income and still don't save for the future. What is so wrong about making them save?

I agree with you - as long as people do have the capacity to save whilst still maintaining a reasonable basic standard of living.

Then again, if they are earning well, that means they are also paying high taxes, which go towards the pensions of current pensioners, so I can see how it seems especially unfair.

But how do you legislate so that only people whom the state reckons can afford to put aside money for a pension do? You can't just do it based on income, as there are so many other variables - not least, say, having to live in a very expensive area for work or having a lot of children for just two of them.

I just believe that the job of the state is to look at how much you earn and then levy the mandated amount of tax on it; it is absolutely not the state's job to then tell you what you should be doing with the remainder.

OrderOfTheKookaburra · 19/10/2023 02:13

People putting aside money themselves is up to them, they aren't forced to here. Their EMPLOYERS are required to make the compulsory contributions.

And honestly? I'm relying on using a chunk of my super which I can access at retirement to help me pay off my mortgage (which I am desperately saving a deposit for now) because I sure as hell won't be able to afford anywhere decent to rent on a pension.

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 19/10/2023 03:29

@SaveMeFromMyBoobs
The vast majority are expected to do a degree?! Really? It's actually just over a third.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 19/10/2023 06:00

There are 2 demographic changes coming :

  1. Those first wave bommers are now 75 + this is a huge demographic group which will reduce substantialy over the next 10 years- this will save the pension pay out ( and actually the NHS too)
  2. 2006-2012 Were high birth years, those people will start to enter the work force and pay tax, this will also help.
  3. Life expectancy is falling so it would be difficult to jusitfy increasing state pension age.
Neurodiversitydoctor · 19/10/2023 06:00

Sorry realised that was 3

daisychain01 · 19/10/2023 06:14

Guavafish1 · 18/10/2023 14:52

Never say never.... With Tory cronyism anything is possible.

I can't believe the pension age is now 68 for some.

Why is 68 surprising? Life expectancy nowadays is significantly more than it was 40 years ago and many people want to keep working even if part time hours. In the right circumstances working is good, it keeps your brain active but it does depend on the type of work you do. Many more people can start saving into a stakeholder pension when they start work, which gives other sources of pension than just relying on the state.

LuisVitton · 19/10/2023 06:38

Pension is graded in Australia - it depends on other income and assets.
If you have no other income or assets looks like you get about the same as here from similar age.

helford · 19/10/2023 07:39

daisychain01 · 19/10/2023 06:14

Why is 68 surprising? Life expectancy nowadays is significantly more than it was 40 years ago and many people want to keep working even if part time hours. In the right circumstances working is good, it keeps your brain active but it does depend on the type of work you do. Many more people can start saving into a stakeholder pension when they start work, which gives other sources of pension than just relying on the state.

Its just 5 years more than in 1983 and we also pay a lot more tax. its also been falling since 2019, even before CV.

rookiemere · 19/10/2023 07:48

Hands up who still wants to be working full time in their current role age 69. No hands , how strange.

Life expectancy may have risen - and now is falling again- but healthy life expectancy is different.

Some people may choose to do some form of work when they get 67+ - 90 year old DF has a side hustle moving videos to memory sticks - but it should be a choice and used to subsidise a pension not as their sole income.

Ertriscia · 19/10/2023 09:38

helford · 18/10/2023 19:39

How? DC pensions are crap and with higher rents and mortgages, even people earning well over NMW will not be able to afford to accrue a large enough private pension but what your meagre private pension will do is make sure you re not able to claim any benefits......

Perhaps thats the point?

I'm almost certain it's the point.

In particular people who are going to be renting in retirement - and there are going to be far more of them in the future - need to be very careful about this. After a lifetime of working on low wages, all that intermittently saving minimum amounts into a stakeholder pension will get them is that they'll be expected to give what they've saved to a private landlord and will not qualify for any additional help under whatever Pension Credit will have morphed into.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 19/10/2023 09:39

Life expectancy may have risen - and now is falling again- but healthy life expectancy is different.

I was going to say the same thing.

A slight aside, but I always think when people talk and dream of living to 150 as standard; they're invariably assuming that they'll get to 25 and then have another 125 years with the same body, abilities and faculties. They never look at your average 100yo and relish the idea of sharply declining from there for another 50 years!

Bowbobobo · 19/10/2023 09:39

hallana · 18/10/2023 21:43

The trouble is we just can't trust the government to steer the ship. Long term financial planning seems increasingly ridiculous. They could spunk the whole thing up the wall in an instant. Some mad cartoon robot makes a speech and everything goes to hell, over and over.

I still do the things - pay into my pension, pay off my mortgage, buy the insurance - but it's more like a carol service in the Church of England. It reminds me of my childhood but I don't really believe in it.

Yes, well said!

TeapotCollection · 19/10/2023 09:52

Very interesting to read these, I can definitely see the age increasing

OP posts:
Nutellaonall · 19/10/2023 09:56

This is what’s bothering me about my NHs pension. It’s linked to state pension age so even if I pay loads into that the state pension ages might be pushed back more and more and I have no control over that so how can I predict what I will get?

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 19/10/2023 09:58

Hands up who still wants to be working full time in their current role age 69. No hands , how strange

I'm 69, semi-retired when I was 67, looking at going back to the same work I did (finance) to give a boost to my savings (among other things have a flat renovation to pay for). 69 doesn't mean decrepit and incapable/unwilling to work.

Ertriscia · 19/10/2023 10:16

Well that's fine then isn't it. Let's just disregard data around healthy life expectancy and raise retirement age to 75. After all it works for someone on a talkboard who does a desk based job so I'm sure it'll be grand.

bombastix · 19/10/2023 10:18

I'm not joking when I say that there was an article in the Telegraph yesterday about retiring at 70. And another about the state pension. These are flyer articles to test how people react to the idea of working longer.

MrsSkylerWhite · 19/10/2023 10:20

Means testing may play a part in future.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 19/10/2023 10:47

I was a teacher. I was knackered at 55. It is so physically demanding. No way could any teacher work to 75.

The assumption is that everyone has a cosy desk job. But they don’t. Manual workers, nhs workers all walk miles and have physically demanding jobs.

arejcenencehche3uh9f3 · 19/10/2023 11:04

Even some desk jobs probably couldn't be done by people in their 70s. Until last year I was a computer programmer but it's unlikely that I'd be cognitively on the ball enough to carry on until I am 68 or whatever they move the goalposts to in the next few years. I think the oldest fellow programmer I have worked with was about 55 although of course that could be because it is well paid and people can afford to retire earlier.

user1497207191 · 19/10/2023 11:06

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 19/10/2023 10:47

I was a teacher. I was knackered at 55. It is so physically demanding. No way could any teacher work to 75.

The assumption is that everyone has a cosy desk job. But they don’t. Manual workers, nhs workers all walk miles and have physically demanding jobs.

So there needs to be workplace, education and training changes put into place so that there are "less physically demanding" jobs available to older people. Trouble is, such changes would require politicians to start long term thinking and, dare I say it, collaboration between the major parties, which sadly simply won't happen!

It's stupid that younger people (fitter and healthier) are almost being forced into "degree level" office jobs that aren't physically demanding, but that older people are having to leave their "harder physical" jobs because their bodies aren't up to it anymore. The older people need education, training, etc., so they can leave their physically demanding jobs and move into less physical jobs. The younger ones should be doing the physical work, not sitting staring at screens!

When I was in the police in the 80s, the front desk, offices, etc., were typically mostly staffed with PCs who were, let's say to be polite, less physically able to be pounding the streets, either due to weight, eyesight problems, or other illnesses. They're weren't just pensioned off and their experience thrown away. They were a valuable resource to help and support the younger ones, and were also a lot better at dealing with the general public due to their extensive experience. Now all that is done by typically younger civilian staff who don't have the extensive knowledge and experience.

Workplaces really need to start valuing experience, but at the same time, the adult education industry needs to be resurrected - it was virtually abandoned in favour of all education resources being thrown at 16-21 year olds!

averylongtimeago · 19/10/2023 12:04

All these people with nice inside jobs telling us that retiring later isn't a problem- work is good for you!

My DH is a builder- retired last year. He's pretty fit for a bloke of 67, but he can't run up and down ladders carrying heavy stuff anymore. He has a dodgy knee and aching joints. I'm sure it will do him a lot of good working on a roof at 70 in January...

Have any of you actually met many scaffolders, roofers, labourers , ground workers, plasterers? Could you do that work day in day out at 70? A lot of building work is piece work, so you can't just slow down. Don't work, don't get paid.
Workplace pension? Hahaha
Re-training? As what? You dont become a scaffolder because you are a wiz at computing..

rookiemere · 19/10/2023 12:15

Can I just also say as one of those with allegedly cushty desk jobs, I can't see myself doing this past 60.

I need to be on top of things mentally, there's a lot of politics and can be very full on.
I'm lucky to have a reasonable work pension that I can take from 60. Not saying I'll not work at all, but can't imagine working at this intensity or level.

I appreciate it's easier to work for longer than if I was doing a physical role, but it still has its demands.

user1497207191 · 19/10/2023 12:15

averylongtimeago · 19/10/2023 12:04

All these people with nice inside jobs telling us that retiring later isn't a problem- work is good for you!

My DH is a builder- retired last year. He's pretty fit for a bloke of 67, but he can't run up and down ladders carrying heavy stuff anymore. He has a dodgy knee and aching joints. I'm sure it will do him a lot of good working on a roof at 70 in January...

Have any of you actually met many scaffolders, roofers, labourers , ground workers, plasterers? Could you do that work day in day out at 70? A lot of building work is piece work, so you can't just slow down. Don't work, don't get paid.
Workplace pension? Hahaha
Re-training? As what? You dont become a scaffolder because you are a wiz at computing..

Fair enough, but what did he plan to do when he became unable to continue working as a builder? Surely it can't have been a surprise that he'd have to give it up as he got older?

And there are far more alternatives than being a computer whizz. How about retail work - the likes of DIY stores seem to employ older workers and he'd be able to use his building experience to advise customers etc who had queries!

We've had a joiner for years who's done all kinds of work for us - he kept telling us he'd be giving it up, and had been cherry picking the work he was doing as he said his back was shot at from carrying heavy oak doors etc, so he'd been doing less physical work. He retrained as a HGV driver (part time alongside reduced hours joinery work) and now drives a small milk tanker around farms collecting their milk - aged 55, so that's his "new" job until retirement - mostly sitting down all day, with a bit of relatively easy manual work of connecting/unconnecting the pipework!

I think it's pretty unreasonable for people to think their first chosen trade/profession will last them until state retirement age, especially if it is a physical job. You need a "plan B" for when the physical work gets too much.

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