UC overpayment - help please

[Professionallytorn]

Sorry it is a lengthy post. An adult relative, who is single and living in London has been living in a rented room, not related to Landlord, no shorthold agreement, just a letter confirming the arrangement. They have lived like this at various addresses in London for over 5 years. They have claimed UC on a number of separate occasions, between jobs. UC have decided they do not accept the evidence of rent for a former address, despite getting a letter and seeing bank statements showing monthly payment to private landlord. Apparently they have decided whole claim is now invalid and have sent a letter stating bailiffs to attend for recovery. What do they do? They left address due to disagreement with landlord, who is unlikely to cooperate with providing any more letters. Relative is terrified. They claimed UC due to mental health issues and I have concerns that they could do something to harm themselves. All the rooms have been rented legitimately, not staying with a friend or partner or relative. Renting in London is so different than in other areas of the country! What can I suggest they do that could help urgently. The CAB have not helped. All advice welcomed. Thank you.

Hi OP,

Request mandatory reconsideration on your relative's UC journal and via phone call to UC.

https://www.gov.uk/mandatory-reconsideration

Gather all the evidence-letter, proof of payment/bank statement and any bills (mobile phone bill?) in relative's name that was used for that address and hold on to it. I don't suppose relative paid council tax there?

I don't see how they will send bailiffs around. They usually just deduct overpayment from current UC entitlement.

UC have decided they do not accept the evidence of rent for a former address, despite getting a letter and seeing bank statements showing monthly payment to private landlord.

Have they explained WHY they won't accept this as evidence?

In what way is renting in London different than renting in other parts of the country?

Uc should have asked for a proper tenancy agreement at the time if that's what they wanted, not months down the line ( unless I'm misunderstanding ? ). As others have said he needs to write an MR on his journal asking them to look at the decision again. Perhaps seek help from CAB or shelter or similar.

You send the evidence again. And do not answer the door!

I suspect out of time for mandatory reconsideration. I think relative has not claimed UC for about a year or more. Renting in London is often just renting a spare bedroom, no shorthold tenancy agreements. In hindsight I suspect their landlord may have been on UC. Landlord was single parent. Not sure if that makes a difference. UC were insisting on Tenancy Agreement and did not accept the landlord letters confirming costs/agreement.

Relative mental health meant they could not cope with stress of UC demands at the time, so suspect they gave up and buried head in sand. MH still poor and worsening with recent events.

I think professional advice may be needed here. Can you, @Professionallytorn and your relative access a CAB, Law Centre or similar with ALL relevant documentation.

As an overview I think there are two issues. Firstly whether DWP are right in their assertion of overpayment and second, if they are, how to get it put right if the normal time limits for MR and onward access to a First-tier Tribunal are lost due to passage of time.

There is no requirement in law for a tenancy agreement to be in writing. At its simplest all that is required is the offer and acceptance of rent. DWP staff can take some persuading of this. I had one tell me as a matter of absolute certainty one is required; it's not true. Informal tenancies are a 'thing' that crop up now and then. An adviser I met on a course a few years ago was from a former mining area where they were particularly common. She said she was a bit of a specialist on the subject!! but

In UC there are three basic conditions to get the Housing Costs Element :

Occupation of property as a home
A liability to pay rent, and
Actual payment.

While a proper tenancy or lodger agreement are ideal there are other ways of producing evidence.

If you go through paperwork do you think you can, on a balance of probability, prove all three?

There are a few elephant traps in the way of exceptions but for them to exist and be a show stopper ain't that common.

@Bromptotoo I think they could show this, especially as period was during covid restrictions. I assume they had bank account registered to address. Likely to have photos in their room. I am sure they sent me some me. Certainly had letter from landlord and bank statements proving payments... probably registered with hmrc there as had been s/employed. I will see what I can find on other support. Thank you