Probate Help! The Pru, my mum and our saga

[EllaView]

I realise this is a long shot, but I’m hoping to tap into the Mumsnet collective for some advice.

My Dad died a year ago. He was a British citizen, permanently domiciled in Canada. He had a life insurance policy with the Pru, into which he paid all his working life.

My elderly mum is his sole beneficiary and executor. She has been able to wrap everything up except this single policy. Dad had no assets in the UK, no IHT was due, we have completed all the HMRC processes and it is clear that probate is not required. Unfortunately, the Pru keeps
requesting a Grant of Registration, which we don’t have because Probate isn’t required.

This ongoing saga is so upsetting for mum. It just keeps triggering profound grief every time she has to discuss the circumstances of his death. How can I take this forward?

what a nightmare OP, these companies can be so stubborn.

Have you tried citizens advice? And have you made a formal complaint to the Pru? After that you can escalate to the ombudsman.

I also love the financial trouble shooter in the Times on a Saturday. Can’t remember her name just now but this is the sort of thing she’d sort out in minutes.

That’s so helpful - thank you so much. I will make a formal complaint to the Pru. It’s so hard to think clearly when I’m stuck in the middle and trying to deal with my grieving mother, HMC&T, HMRC etc.

What exactly does the policy say about requirements to secure payment on death?

Write to them to say that you expect them to sort this out as it's not a particularly unusual situation. Tell them that you expect them to come up with a solution. Tell them that if they don't you'll be writing to the CEO:

https://www.ceoemail.com/index.php?s=P (scroll down to find Prudential Plc and click on "Prudential Plc Group Chief Executive Email address and Phone number - Mr A Wadhwani")

If you have to write to Mr A Wadhwani tell him that you're going to contact the Times/Telegraph financial trouble shooter if Prudential isn't able to sort it out.

Can you get round it by applying for probate anyway? I don’t think anything prevents you- it’s just supposed to streamline things if you can settle the estate without.

wierdly we are having the opposite problem, relative appears to be able to cash in all her parents assets without probate (which is a problem as she won’t show anyone the will and isn’t distributing the assets over a year post death)

I think you can apply for administration instead of probate which doesn't take as long?

Isn’t administration only if there’s no will?

Life assurance should be paid out upon death and paid to the assigned beneficiaries (which can be different to people mentioned in the will, or direct relatives if intestate).

Formal complaint to the Pru.

I had some official prick tell me that when my mum dies that all I had to do was send her death cert off and the house would be transferred into my name!

My experience is if one company that holds some of the deceased assets/life insurance say probate is required, then its required.
You can't just say that its not required because thats what you think/believe.
I went through this when my DF passed away. Ten companies didn't require probate to pay out. One did. I had to get probate.

If you were joint tenants that may be the case?

I appreciate we can apply for probate but this is just another hurdle for her. She isn’t in the UK, so even if I do all the paperwork, she still has to deal with sending off the documents and all the stress that causes.

if we had been made aware of this shortly after his death, it would have been much easier, but a year on seems cruel.

Sorry, I should have said that it was official advice that probate was not required as no assets were held.

Complain. Key words to use: Vulnerable, distress, inconvenience, duty to consumers.

I work in financial services.

Thanks to everyone on this thread. You’ve all been immensely helpful. I feel much less stressed now I have a plan. Thank goodness for mumsnet!

How much is the policy worth. Many institutions won't pay out higher amounts without probate even if estate is below IHT. St James Place for example is over £50k ( or so they told us when claiming slightly more than this).

Was your mum the named beneficiary on the policy itself?

I know some time has gone by, but I just wanted to let you know that my mum’s policy has now been settled. Thank you all so much for your wisdom and advice. This is exactly why I’ve loved Mumsnet so long.

Did she go through probate?

I appreciate what you’re saying.

if you do need to complete probate the office line are incredibly helpful for knowing which firms to send in and all can be done online and paid for online. The only document is the original will to be sent - not a copy.

where is the original will? Canada or U.K.? As that could be a striking point

Glad they settled

I'm glad you have sorted this . I had to deal with the Pru recently and they are absolute nightmare when it came to sorting stuff out .

However, when my FIL died his solicitor told us you definitely don't need probate , told my BIL several times you don't need probate . I work for an estates lawyer , and was advised to get it . We wrote to all the asset holders and out of 6 companies 5 required a grant of probate .

Took 7 months and intervention from my local MP because the probate office messed up to get it . But we finally have settled his estate .

I've recently dealt with the Pru for my dad's estate. They required Grant of Probate and I also had to send a letter indicating where the money was to be paid and also signed by both executors (me and brother). Once they got all that, it was just about a week and we had the money paid into the account we requested.

Aviva didn't require probate and paid out almost immediately I notified them, they already had the death certificate so everything with them was very straightforward.

I’m glad to hear that you were able to resolve this! We seem to be in the same situation. Would you be able to share how you were able to resolve it in the end?

@dad400 hopefully the OP poster will reply but wanted to let you know there is a Prudential policyholders Facebook page which has lots of information as unfortunately many people have experienced issues with the Pru.