Employment Law and TUPE

[MincePieMonster]

Just wondering if there's anybody here who knows anything about employment law especially with regard to TUPE (Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment)).

I was transferred into my current company in 2003 when my old company outsourced all it's IT work. At the time, TUPE regulations meant that I had to receive exactly the same terms and conditions with the new employer as with the old and all was fine.

It is now pay review time and I have been told that I will get no pay rise for several years because I'm paid more than other members of my team and they have to be allowed to 'catch up'. I am furious about this (as well as being highly p*ssed off and demotivated by it) and am wondering if they can get away with it ... I will be taking a pay cut (in real terms) for a number of years (as yet unquantified) and am being penalised for something which is not my fault at all i.e. the fact that my old employer saw fit to pay me more than these mean b@stards.

Does anybody have any advice about what I could do, if anything? Is it worth raising with HR or would I be wasting my time?

TIA - CookieMonster

Can't help a lot - but TUPE does seem to be a law unto itself.

I joined my company (could even be the same one!) in very similar circumstances. But but then I moved within the company to work on a different project with other people who were doing the same job as I am, but came in via TUPE from another organisation. They were ALL paid more than me, get company cars and mobile phones provided, and were paid for overtime, none of which I had as they hadn't been part of the T's&C's at my old company. And they were all male. Apparently becasue this situation is down to TUPE it was legal (whereas it wouldn't have been otherwise). And assessing everyone on the same basis, rather than relative to what they were paid was legal too.

From what I was told, the fact that you've joined an organisation under TUPE more or less gives them carte blanche to do anything they like, regardless of any other employment legislation, in future, because they are not responsible for variations in your terms and conditions to those of other employees.

I'm not quite sure how that works when it's how you are treated relative to other people who joined under the same TUPE agreement though.

LSG, you don't work for IBM do you??

I'm actually being compared to people who were already working for IBM when I joined .. my colleagues who TUPE's in from the same company as me are all finding themselves in the same position as me, albeit in different parts of IBM!

I agree with you that TUPE is a law unto itself - they keep talking about the 'spirit' of TUPE and to me that can mean anything. Still spitting feathers though ... having a 'chat' with my manager tomorrow and wondering how bolshy to be about this ...

Am a civil servant and we frequently get staff from OGDs who are paid more than us to do same job. They are always put on marked time for pay in order that we catch up. They may grumble but we don't since thye have often come from higher paid jobs but doing lower level work. Much speculation about what will happen when 2 depts merge in April since their higher pay is a huge bone of contention amongst us.

Tinker, yes I can see it from the other side of as well ... those who I work with now probably have no idea what I'm earning but I'm sure would be pretty fed up about it.

I don't expect a huge pay rise ... if they would give me, say 2%, to keep me more or less in line with inflation, I would be happy.

the answer depends on whether you had always had an annual pay increase with you 'old' employere and whether that increase was linked to anything e.g. inflation - if you did and the it was linked to something, you have a case for arguing that your orginal terms and conditions included a contractual pay rise each year. As all terms and conditions of employment (including unwritten ones) transer in a TUPE situation, you are contractually entitled to a pay rise unless you have already acceptef the change in your terms and conditions with your new employer by, for example, accepting a 'no pay rise' situation a year ago.

HTH

try going ACAS a quick call they're the employment law experts. theres a big topic on it in their web site hold on..

contractual issues - ACAS

thanks for your responses sis and jingleballs.

sis, I am in no doubt that had I still been with my old employers I would have got a pay rise - I was with them for 12 years and never got a 0% pay award - but there is nothing either written or verbal to back that up.
I had a 'session' with my manager this morning and tried to get some answers about the pay situation, but he just did the typical manager thing of burying his head in the sand and saying that if the company does well next year I may get a pay rise. So seeing as I am not a sales person and have no influence on whether the company gets new business or not, there is nothing I can do.

Oh well, such is life ...

< rushes off to put in for some more overtime >

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As I understand it, TUPE only applies at the point (moment) of transfer and so your situation is not unusual MPMonster.
Worth getting advice though. Do you have a union or any other representation?

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