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Original poster

Can’t sell house until stepdad passes

91 replies

Gulpalp · 08/09/2023 08:19

Mum has allowed for stepdad to live in her house when she passes
The actual property has been gifted to the 2 children but they can’t release the value of it until stepdad passes and only then they can sell
Whilst he is alive and living there can they extract value from the house via equity release or otherwise and how does that work?

OP posts:
Rounee · 08/09/2023 17:03

I've done exactly the same with my house.

But my husband is the kids actual dad.

Don't think they'd be as greedy to try and get their hands on the cash if he survived me. But it would be their own dad they take the security from.

Better this risk,than him getting remarried and his hypothetical future wife inheriting it all instead.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 08/09/2023 17:11

Don't think they'd be as greedy to try and get their hands on the cash if he survived me. But it would be their own dad they take the security from.

Better this risk,than him getting remarried and his hypothetical future wife inheriting it all instead.

Obviously, it's none of my business how you plan your will, but would you not normally expect your DH to make his will in that way, should he survive you and then marry again?

Normally, the problem is about the spouse not loving their step-children as much as their own kids, and thus leaving it all - however much came from their late spouse/the SC's parent - to their own kids and disinheriting the SC. But if it is their own parent, I'd expect them (your DH in this hypothetical scenario) to want to ensure this.

ShyMaryEllen · 08/09/2023 17:16

It all comes down to trust, whether of your husband/partner not to let the assets you've worked for go to his new wife, but also of your children to play fair by all concerned.

Our solicitor suggested that we consider leaving it in trust to the children when we made our wills, as the two-tier care home fees system is so unjust, but as the children were young and not settled with partners we decided against it. You don't know who will influence one or both of them down the line, and it seemed to make sense not to risk potentially turning one against another, as well as the (we hope remote!) possibility that they would try to get the surviving parent out, or otherwise abuse the fact that they owned our biggest asset.

Also, owing something that can't be liquidised can be a financial hindrance. You could be cash poor but rich on paper, and not even be able to live in the house you own, unless the will is very loose about that side of things. We decided to leave the house to one another, and the survivor will decide what to do thereafter. I've told my husband that I will haunt him if I go first and he leaves it to another woman👻

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 08/09/2023 17:23

Also, owing something that can't be liquidised can be a financial hindrance. You could be cash poor but rich on paper

True - there are a lot of posh people living in crumbling inherited castles with barely a penny to their names to maintain or run them.

Katrinawaves · 08/09/2023 17:25

Eh to the moral outrage?

My understanding of equity release is that the finance company make you a payment up front for the perceived value of the house. You continue to live in it as normal and when you pop your clogs the finance company gets it.

I’ve got no idea whether equity release is possible in the circumstances OP is enquiring about but provided stepdad can continue to live in the house for the rest of his life as OP’s mum wanted, why is it any skin off his nose whether OP gets her money when her mum dies and the ownership of the house passes to the finance company when he dies or OP has to wait until he dies until she sees any money.

This all has no impact at all on the stepdad whose position doesn’t change. The only impact is that the OP gets some money earlier but probably less than she would get if she waited until the stepdad dies.

So why the pile on and personal insults?

Witsend101 · 08/09/2023 17:26

Curious about how this works in reality. Could imagine it would be a minefield. In this scenario who is responsible for maintaining the house then? The children who own it but can't touch it or the partner who doesn't own it but lives there?

Thelittleweasel · 08/09/2023 17:27

You really need a chat with a solicitor. This may be an attempt to avoid the value of house being taken if care is needed. It is a minefield

AuntieMarys · 08/09/2023 17:28

Witsend101 · 08/09/2023 17:26

Curious about how this works in reality. Could imagine it would be a minefield. In this scenario who is responsible for maintaining the house then? The children who own it but can't touch it or the partner who doesn't own it but lives there?

In my case, my husband would be responsible. Has to maintain house/ gardens ...which he would anyway

MermaidEyes · 08/09/2023 17:48

ShyMaryEllen · 08/09/2023 12:57

Was this done to avoid possible care home fees? I've heard of people passing on their homes in trust to the next generation, but each parent leaving the other a lifetime right to live there after one of them dies.

It relies so much on trust. Yes, the children will get more money if care fees are avoided - which can seem attractive when the thought of going into care is long way off - but if care is needed, the children have the option to refuse to pay anything and put their aged parent(s) into local authority care, which is often 'no frills', or to exercise other financial control. It's a big risk, particularly if the children see the parent's house as representing 'their money'.

There is also the question of the inconvenient surviving spouse. If a parent and step-parent have just got together it can seem as though the SP is cashing in, but often they have contributed to the mortgage, paid for works to the house, or paid for other things for the couple if the house was paid off when they moved in.

My parents did this, they each left their half of the house in trust for their children. If the surviving parent has to go into a care home, the fees will be paid from any savings they have and their half of the house when sold. So it's not a case of the children paying, or refusing to pay, any fees. They only inherit the money from the property in trust once both parents are deceased.

Proudgypsy · 08/09/2023 18:50

CredibilityProblem · 08/09/2023 16:12

The house belongs to them, it's their possession. Using it to help them access things they need surely is "paying for it themselves".

Show quote history

No it doesn't. They will inherit it when he dies.

ShyMaryEllen · 08/09/2023 19:30

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 08/09/2023 17:23

Also, owing something that can't be liquidised can be a financial hindrance. You could be cash poor but rich on paper

True - there are a lot of posh people living in crumbling inherited castles with barely a penny to their names to maintain or run them.

No, I meant that the beneficiaries (in this case the children) could seem to be well off because they have the asset of the house, but actually be skint. This would (or might) mean that they were ineligible for means-tested benefits etc.

caringcarer · 08/09/2023 19:37

Mari9999 · 08/09/2023 12:34

She has probably given him a life tenancy in the house. HR will have no rights of ownership, but he will have the right to live in the home until he passes.

This it definitely sounds like life tenancy. DC will have to wait for their inheritance.

caringcarer · 08/09/2023 19:51

In my will I am leaving a btl house I own through a ltd company to my 2 DGS's to share with their Mum, my dd getting a life time interest. Once I'm dead my 2 DGS's will own the property but they can't sell until after their Mum does. This should mean it will provide them with a pension. My DD and my 2 DS's hopefully will get a house each once I die. DH will have our house and a couple of btl houses. The holiday home is in trust so hopefully can be used by all of beneficiaries. It works unless I become ill and need a care home for many years, then it all goes up in smoke.

caringcarer · 08/09/2023 19:54

Rounee · 08/09/2023 17:03

I've done exactly the same with my house.

But my husband is the kids actual dad.

Don't think they'd be as greedy to try and get their hands on the cash if he survived me. But it would be their own dad they take the security from.

Better this risk,than him getting remarried and his hypothetical future wife inheriting it all instead.

I completely understand your reasoning. I've left a house to DGS's with DD having a lifetime interest. Just in case she and her DH ever broke up and if it was in her name her DH would get half of it. It's what needs to be done to protect DC/DGS's best interest.

ManchesterLu · 08/09/2023 20:22

Parrotcup · 08/09/2023 12:43

What is the mechanism she's used to "gift" it to her (?) children whilst giving him lifetime rights to live there?

What do you mean 'mechanism'? It's a very common thing to write in the will. Their partner (who didn't own the property) can continue to live there until they die, then the beneficiaries of the will inherit. Very, very common.

And also fair. The man will have just lost his wife, why should he lose the home they shared too?

He might have lived there for decades of his life! This way, everyone gets what they need.

Parrotcup · 08/09/2023 20:27

ManchesterLu · 08/09/2023 20:22

What do you mean 'mechanism'? It's a very common thing to write in the will. Their partner (who didn't own the property) can continue to live there until they die, then the beneficiaries of the will inherit. Very, very common.

And also fair. The man will have just lost his wife, why should he lose the home they shared too?

He might have lived there for decades of his life! This way, everyone gets what they need.

Show quote history

Yes but OP doesn't say its been left, she says it's been "gifted".

Rounee · 08/09/2023 21:26

caringcarer · 08/09/2023 19:54

I completely understand your reasoning. I've left a house to DGS's with DD having a lifetime interest. Just in case she and her DH ever broke up and if it was in her name her DH would get half of it. It's what needs to be done to protect DC/DGS's best interest.

Show quote history

I would do the same.

If still alive maybe review the will in about 20 years. Kids still very young right now.

Mari9999 · 08/09/2023 22:45

Ownership can pass when the wife passes ; however, the stepfather will have the life tenancy and the house is entailed for his use until he passes.

Clearly, his wife wishes to ensure that he had a place to live for the remainder of his life.

Somanycats · 08/09/2023 23:30

Rounee · 08/09/2023 17:03

I've done exactly the same with my house.

But my husband is the kids actual dad.

Don't think they'd be as greedy to try and get their hands on the cash if he survived me. But it would be their own dad they take the security from.

Better this risk,than him getting remarried and his hypothetical future wife inheriting it all instead.

Yes we have done exactly the same. It was actually suggested in our NHS staff pre retirement seminars. Apparently loads of elderly people lose their spouse, remarry then leave their entire assets to the new family. And the original children get bugger all. Well DH is not getting that option in his dotage. He can use my half of the house while he is alive if he survives me. After that it's going to DS, not his new fancy woman!

saraclara · 08/09/2023 23:57

Ascendant15 · 08/09/2023 16:15

Wow. A new "inheritance" low point has been reached on MN.

It really hasn't. Read the OP (and the several other posts that have carefully explained the situation) properly.

saraclara · 09/09/2023 00:02

Katrinawaves · 08/09/2023 17:25

Eh to the moral outrage?

My understanding of equity release is that the finance company make you a payment up front for the perceived value of the house. You continue to live in it as normal and when you pop your clogs the finance company gets it.

I’ve got no idea whether equity release is possible in the circumstances OP is enquiring about but provided stepdad can continue to live in the house for the rest of his life as OP’s mum wanted, why is it any skin off his nose whether OP gets her money when her mum dies and the ownership of the house passes to the finance company when he dies or OP has to wait until he dies until she sees any money.

This all has no impact at all on the stepdad whose position doesn’t change. The only impact is that the OP gets some money earlier but probably less than she would get if she waited until the stepdad dies.

So why the pile on and personal insults?

Edited

Because people are either a) stupid, b) poor at reading comprehension, or C) are programmed to interpret everything in the worst possible way so that they can get angry.

There are SO few people in this thread who understand the situation, and that what is being asked about does NOT disadvantage the step dad.

Original poster
Gulpalp · 09/09/2023 06:35

Wow. What an interesting array of comments. I won’t be elaborating with any more details as it’s clear the situation had been misunderstood by most, perhaps as I did not explain it fully enough, but I I will glean what I can from the less judgemental answers. Thank you.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 09/09/2023 06:38

CredibilityProblem · 08/09/2023 13:02

They're not trying to go against mum's wishes at all. Mum wanted stepdad to be able to stay in the house until he died (or went into a care home).

The children aren't trying to counteract that at all - they're just wondering whether they can access some of the financial value of the house in the meantime. The stepfather's rights wouldn't be affected in any way.

Show quote history

Exactly this

Rounee · 09/09/2023 08:09

Gulpalp · 09/09/2023 06:35

Wow. What an interesting array of comments. I won’t be elaborating with any more details as it’s clear the situation had been misunderstood by most, perhaps as I did not explain it fully enough, but I I will glean what I can from the less judgemental answers. Thank you.

I'd would be so disappointed in my kids if this was their thinking.

I would have hoped that I'd given them a start in life where they shouldn't have to rely on an inheritance.

I completely understood the op. But still feel this wouldn't be something loving children would think about if their actual father was living in a house.

missmollygreen · 09/09/2023 09:55

CredibilityProblem · 08/09/2023 16:24

Tbh if the children could release some of the equity before their stepparent's death then they might have much sunnier feelings towards them and their life expectancy.

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