Do you lose your pension if you're fired?

[ChimneyPotter]

One-step removed family member has got fired. It made the Guardian where things were considerably more spicy than we were told over dinner a couple of weeks ago!

I'm just being nosey really- and a bit worried that getting fired has way more consequences than I thought!

They're mainly stressed out about pension loss and going through employment tribunal because of this as the key reason really.

Is it right that if you get sacked you lose your pension? Or is it just he's not going to get the last 5 years or so - he is 60? Can they cut the element they have contributed?

It's a national charity, he's been there donkeys years. Not sure what kind of pension schemes they run but could well be more like public sector ones than standard private.

It depends on the scheme but he should definitely get back what he himself has paid in

It's going to depend on terms and conditions and precise circumstances.

In their shoes I'd be getting my head around that before chucking too much money and energy at a Tribunal.

The general principle is that pension = deferred wages and that, serious dishonesty leading to financial loss excepted, the money is not the employer's to take away.

I've only heard of that in the police force.

Thanks all - yes doesn't seem entirely straight forward- the police force element I think I'd heard of too now you say it!

They've got fired for something that was potentially very serious but there was no actual consequence (like failing a regulation requirement, although the backstory of previous issues is more... interesting... and makes me understand why it was a firing offence)

I also get if you've done something truly awful, part of me feels yeah you should lose the 'future' earnings - but flip it, and these are already paid in by ER and EE so it's like taking back your wages that you've already earned (deferred wages is a great term!)

Gah - minefield!

They cannot touch the part that has already been accrued. He will only lose the future part of his pension so the part he and his employer haven’t contributed yet.

I might get this deleted if I were you OP - I’ve worked out who you’re talking about in about 2 mins based on what you’ve said.

I know someone who kept their full pension despite all sorts of shenanigans working for the la so I think it’s quite a high bar to have it partially removed.

I’ve only heard of losing all your pension if you are convicted of something criminal. An employment tribunal for bad but not criminal behaviour usually doesn’t mean complete loss- as a pp said it depends on employment contract and sector. You always at least get back your contributions and whatever has accrued on your contributions.

Harold Shipman kept his pension. Not that he ever claimed it.

Is your relative the British museum guy 😂

We lose employers pension contributions if we are sacked for gross misconduct. Public sector, not police or nhs.

I'm sure if you have stolen money/committed fraud or similar they can recoup what you've taken from your pensions, might have to go to court for it though.

@ChimneyPotter this is astonishingly outing. Did you mean it to be?

He’s resigned not fired

It was a joke…but don’t believe everything you read!

I feel like a failure because I haven’t found out who it is yet :(

Me too . It's surely not widespread

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/21/met-police-no-further-action-cash-for-honours-claims-king-charity-princes-foundation

Just to be clear this is not the British Museum guy!

I think it's best if I neither confirm nor deny any further linkings!

Thanks to everyone on the facts of pensions when getting sacked, @IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads in particular thank you!

Why would you state such identifying facts? It's like you want us to know who you're referring to?

Agreed. Very odd.

Okay... apologies this seems to have caused upset by being 'outing'

1. I'm asking about what happens to your pension when you get fired. I'm giving context because it will impact what the 'correct' answer actually is.
2. There's zero way to establish the exact link between me and the person so there's not really any problem with me asking about the facts of a case.
3. Though I don't wish to invite lots of speculative links and will ask for it to be deleted if I feel this is getting too close to the mark, I think you're all probably barking up the wrong tree.

Apart from a few notable exceptions e.g police, armed forces (?) you can only lose pension in cases of fraud against the employer (or scheme but this would be slightly different) and then only if the pension scheme rules have specific provision for this.

Not all schemes do and I’ve only seen this used once.

It can’t be because he was cleared of all wrong doing. He’s the fall guy even though it wasn’t his fault the Director never gave him the funds he needed to digitally scan and inventory the 5 million objects they have stashed in the basement.