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Original poster

People in extreme debt - is this really as common as I’m told?

271 replies

Lesterzap · 16/08/2023 21:02

Chatting to my friend today who works id debt management. She was saying how busy it’s been since covid and COL crisis.

I mentioned how someone I know had ended up owing 20k. According to my friend 20k of debt is now a drop in the ocean and that there’s been a real increase in people in higher incomes owing 70-100k!!! Totally shocked by this. Aside from my mortgage I’ve never owed more that 5k (car loan)

surely that level of can’t be common?

OP posts:
Jmaho · 17/08/2023 09:51

I barely use my debit card these days we pay everything on a tesco credit card and repay in full every month
Pay no interest and earn points that pay for a meal out and our annual Eurotunnel crossing

BitOutOfPractice · 17/08/2023 09:52

I’ve just treated myself to some new underwear using the cash back on my fully paid off credit card this month. No fee and new Pants! Im calling that a win!

MinnieTruck · 17/08/2023 10:10

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 17/08/2023 00:23

They taught it when I did my GCSEs about 25 years ago it has always been on the curriculum since then. That is in maths. In PSHE financial decision making is a topic exploring different outcomes, decision making, advertising impact,

Do parents teach kids at any point or is parenting now a school's job?

Show quote history

They didn’t teach that in GCSEs when I was in school and I sat my exams in 2015. This was covered in statistics or economics (A-Level) if you choose the subjects but it wasn’t covered in standard maths in my school!

CherryPieMadness · 17/08/2023 10:34

Mummyoflittledragon · 17/08/2023 05:38

Please look into landlord insurance. We had a tenant, who didn’t pay. In the end he had 12 months rent free. Then there were solicitor and court fees on top, a lot of cleaning (filth), rubbish disposal and repainting. We were lucky he abided by the eviction notice and didn’t really damage much.

Show quote history

I’ve got comprehensive landlord insurance, even though one tenant didn’t pay his last months rent and caused damage - it was going to cost as much to prove the damage and claim as it was just to pay for it in this case, so I just paid for it. So it’s still not a cover all, just like rent doesn’t really cover boiler repair etc - not when you have a big mortgage on the property to cover.

lovewoola · 17/08/2023 10:43

In terms of you saying that people with huge salaries and huge mortgages would be savvy and have Savings and investments and equity and the like, as you described.

wealthier people do tend to have these though & bigger eg borrowing more &/or interest only mortgages mean higher salaries as the same options aren't available to lower earners (one reason the gov have the stepped in to help people move to interest only for 6 months)

But I don’t think those that outwardly look wealthy will all be immune.

I don't think they will be immune, I just don't think it will be as catastrophic as it would be for lower earners as I said they generally have more options.

CherryPieMadness · 17/08/2023 10:45

lovewoola · 17/08/2023 06:58

@CherryPieMadness can I ask why you have to care for your mum?

Well it’s a choice, I could let her go into a care home but they aren’t that great around here. She’s happier at home and I value her, she bought me up within hardship and her last few years deserve some dignity. She’d never ask me to care for her, which is partly why I am doing it. I also have to care for my child with disabilities who needs a lot of 24/7 attention also. I could bundle them both out to be cared for by other people but I’d be paying an awful lot for specialist disabled childcare and seeing other parents choices, I realise how difficult it is to actually find someone who provide quality care, most are having to constantly find new carers for their kids and their kids have a lot of behaviour problems.

I’ve had a lot of people try to tell me I chose to be in this much debt, by not working or caring for others etc. The reality is for some people like me this is not a frivolous choice, it’s really unavoidable. What would make my debt less is…

  • maintenance to be increased to main resident parents, it’s shockingly low in the UK most of the time and barely covers anything.
  • Better quality care for older people and much better provision for kids with disabilities - also shockingly low.
  • universal income or something similar, so that people like me who care for others but don’t really rely on benefits as we work part time and have a mortgage - so that we can have a buffer.
lovewoola · 17/08/2023 10:50

@CherryPieMadness it was more from a perspective that with an ageing population & a crumbling health service/social care that going forward this will be more of a reason people get into debt if they have to give up work to care.

Well it’s a choice, I could let her go into a care home but they aren’t that great around here. She’s happier at home and I value her, she bought me up within hardship and her last few years deserve some dignity

I do take a bit of umbrage with the above though. For many it isn't a choice or do with value not just because of working or distance. Plenty of people who are in care homes need significant round the clock cafe. One of my in-laws was sectioned by the police & very violent with their dementia & strong, they definitely needed an care home. Yes it was very expensive & traumatic but we didn't value them any less.

lovewoola · 17/08/2023 10:55

Better quality care for older people and much better provision for kids with disabilities - also shockingly low

it's there for older people but it costs. Some other relatives of mine paid for private carers so they could stay in the home (state options were useless), more than 2k a wk.

Anxioys · 17/08/2023 11:00

@BitOutOfPractice - yes of course they have these issues. There is a lot of overpriced homes in the SE of England. A lot of people have borrowed the max for mortgages and they will be seriously burned by interest rates.

BitOutOfPractice · 17/08/2023 11:03

that’s right @Anxioys My point was that debt seems to be endemic in all parts of society.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 17/08/2023 11:09

MinnieTruck · 17/08/2023 10:10

They didn’t teach that in GCSEs when I was in school and I sat my exams in 2015. This was covered in statistics or economics (A-Level) if you choose the subjects but it wasn’t covered in standard maths in my school!

Show quote history

Yes they did, I was teaching it then! Prior to the curriculum changes in 2014 it was on the old curriculum as being taught within year 8, 9 and 10 with increasingly complex objectives. However it was common to be taught a process then to get to an answer and not put into context. Now kids are taught conceptual understanding not just procedural understanding and also application into context.

MinnieTruck · 17/08/2023 11:10

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 17/08/2023 11:09

Yes they did, I was teaching it then! Prior to the curriculum changes in 2014 it was on the old curriculum as being taught within year 8, 9 and 10 with increasingly complex objectives. However it was common to be taught a process then to get to an answer and not put into context. Now kids are taught conceptual understanding not just procedural understanding and also application into context.

Show quote history

I literally didn’t learn that at school but okay😂

CherryPieMadness · 17/08/2023 11:22

lovewoola · 17/08/2023 10:50

@CherryPieMadness it was more from a perspective that with an ageing population & a crumbling health service/social care that going forward this will be more of a reason people get into debt if they have to give up work to care.

Well it’s a choice, I could let her go into a care home but they aren’t that great around here. She’s happier at home and I value her, she bought me up within hardship and her last few years deserve some dignity

I do take a bit of umbrage with the above though. For many it isn't a choice or do with value not just because of working or distance. Plenty of people who are in care homes need significant round the clock cafe. One of my in-laws was sectioned by the police & very violent with their dementia & strong, they definitely needed an care home. Yes it was very expensive & traumatic but we didn't value them any less.

I’m not judging anyone else’s choice and definitely do not view others has valuing their parents less if they don’t care for them. I am asked why I care for my mum a lot, often with the underlying judgement that I am either somehow sponging off of her by living there (when it would be better for me to live in my own home) or that I am work shy. I’m not saying you did this, but I guess my response was to outline that not everyone who is in debt, like I am, is making silly life choices. And at the moment there is a lot of pressure on women to work and not do caring roles - it’s looked down on and if a woman loses out financially because of caring for parents or children it’s seen as her fault for not working full-time.

Spicychickensoup · 17/08/2023 11:45

Name change for this one. I’m a regular poster but have never posted about our money or debt until now

i do Believe that people can have very high debt levels of 70-100k…. Because we do

heres our story…

moved house to a house that needed quite major renovations In early 2020. Dh is very handy and planned to do a lot of the work himself. My In laws agreed for us to live there for 6 months whilst the work was underway.

just after we moved in dh suffered a nasty injury making it impossible for him to do any of the work. He was also furloughed throughout covid and lost a large chunk of pay that is made up from overtime and bonuses.

im a nurse in a hospital and it wasn’t appropriate for me to be living with my elderly in laws as both are clinically vulnerable. We rented a 2 bed house from a friend for £500 pet a month. We ended up there until July 2021

dh’s surgery for his injury was constantly cancelled so we ended up borrowing 12k for a private procedure- topped up by a gift from in-laws.

the house renovations went over budget massively and we uncovered some major issues that were not part of the survey (apparently).

we eventually moved in in July 2021. Two months later dh was made redundant!! He managed to get another job but it took until December 2021. We plugged the gap with credit cards and prepared ourselves to sell the house in spring if nothing improved.

dh’s new job is better for him but pays 19k a year less than his previous one.

we had some debt before all of this started but it was at very manageable levels. I updated our Debt spreadsheet this morning and we currently owe 71k on top of the mortgage. It was 86k at its peak. This is in a combined income of just over 100k. Dh earns 69kish and I’m a band 7 nurse.

we’ll sort it and to be honest, I’ve gone past the point of losing sleep over it

so yes, I can believe that people have these levels if debt, if we do, then I’m sure many many more are in the same boat

CherryPieMadness · 17/08/2023 11:59

@Spicychickensoup I feel for you, and like you I no longer lose sleep over debt. Because like you, we got into it because of unavoidable life circumstances and houses. Houses need to be maintained and there is no way around this. My house needed a new roof, I have to pay 15,000 for a new roof. I was renting it out and no way did the rent cover this. I was paying down my debt working full-time, then my child’s education broke down, and I have to wait for another specialist disability place. There is no magic wand that gives me childcare for this time and it’s been over a year. You sound like you are making the best decisions that you can financially and I hope your DH gets better.

At least we have a home though with our debt, so there is some means to pay it off eventually. I am going to have to sell my house when my mum dies, rather than move back in, just in order to pay off my debt. I will have a smaller house in a not so great area.

crossstitchingnana · 17/08/2023 12:14

I had no idea, so thank you OP for teaching me something. I thought over £5k was a lot of debt (excluding mortgages) for an average person. I could see how a business person starting out, for example, could have more.

I have been so fortunate.

Amboseli · 17/08/2023 12:31

We did have around £40k unsecured debt at 0% to pay for adding a garage to the house plus other things. Will have paid it off by 2026. It just comes out as a DD and we don't think about it. If we had tried to save up the money before having the garage built it would have taken years.

I think debt is fine as long as you can pay the monthly DD without struggling.

Amboseli · 17/08/2023 12:44

@fullbloom87 your ideas about credit cards are a bit strange. I've had one since I was 18 and have never been tempted to buy something simply because I could pay by credit card. And I don't have strong will power. I'm just sensible and not interested in flashy cars, clothes or tat.

Maybe my use of credit card is more like a "payment card". I pay it off every month in full and don't actually use the credit facility in the way you're thinking people do.

RosieRainbow1986 · 17/08/2023 13:38

I think lots of people have debt for lots of different things, as others have said. Whether it's for a sofa, car, new kitchen etc. I'm sure for lots of people the debt is affordable and they've balanced that before committing themselves to it. We desperately needed a new car last year and the only way to afford it was with a loan as I didn't have £18000 in savings to pay outright for it. But I'm able to afford the repayments so it's a debt I'm comfortable with. Same with my mortgage. I feel for the people who have to get themselves in debt to live day to day - not an easy situation to be in and I can see how it happens.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 17/08/2023 14:00

MinnieTruck · 17/08/2023 11:10

I literally didn’t learn that at school but okay😂

Show quote history

Maybe you didn't listen.

FreshStart12345 · 17/08/2023 16:12

@CherryPieMadness
• universal income or something similar, so that people like me who care for others but don’t really rely on benefits as we work part time and have a mortgage - so that we can have a buffer.

I am strongly against carers benefit being means tested, or at least at the cap of £123 a week (or whatever it is now). You can't even work 12hrs on minimum wage to claim carers which is so wrong. I know the £70 a week isn't a lot but it really helps those that have made that career sacrifice to look after someone. That limit should be scrapped or at least raised to like £500 a week.

Beenhereforever1978 · 17/08/2023 18:21

Jmaho · 17/08/2023 09:51

I barely use my debit card these days we pay everything on a tesco credit card and repay in full every month
Pay no interest and earn points that pay for a meal out and our annual Eurotunnel crossing

And all your purchases are protected! Win win win!

AnxiouslyWait · 17/08/2023 19:09

lovewoola · 16/08/2023 22:56

@AnxiouslyWait 175k! what did you study?

Veterinary Medicine with an extra year on top :)

dizzyHP · 18/08/2023 08:29

This reply has been deleted

Unfortunately we have some doubts about the OP so we've removed their threads and posts.

User15387500 · 18/08/2023 08:41

Most people buy a new car on PCP or a maybe a second hand one with a loan, nothing wrong with that but the problem arises when people buy Range Rover or similar expensive cars cars on a Ford Focus or similar salary.