IMAGINE a mortgage free Britain

[HarrowToCroydon]

For a moment, imagine if everyone in Britain lived in Government Housing. Everyone paid minimal rent, the cost to Government was 0 as the rent would cover upkeep and new buildings.

And society was secure in the knowledge that their children too will be housed.

How would you then spend your money which you have saved from paying a mortgage.

Will you be having a lot less stress?

Love a Samurai collection, I used this as an example because a few weeks ago the Daily Mail (I know) reported on some neighbour who made living hell for their new neighbour by whacking at their door with a sword.

I would welcome a gun collection too, one of the reasons I love France and Italy, much easier to own a gun.

Your tax would not go up, it would go down, math I have explained a few posts above.

The problem is, X down the benefits will one day revolt, do we really wish for a civil war to break out before we fix this "shitshow" that many feel Thatcher started?

dont be ridiculous. A system where a huge organization has to arrange local repairs is even more open to corruption. Publishing average people’s names who complain of corruption is an even worse idea!

One of the biggest challenges in my area is that repairs are simply not done even when ordered. Or are done extremely poorly by in house teams. That’s even though there is an enormous amount of bureaucracy to get them ordered in the first place.

you are incredibly naive. You need to go away an learn about these things. Enforced public housing has been tried. It was awful.

Are you suggesting mobs to vote people out of their homes now? Lol! It gets funnier

Under communism in Eastern Europe that you lived under, was basically a corrupt dictatorship, let me know the country and I am happy to look up.

The housing associations currently are analogous to the Eastern European communist countries you describe. Run for the benefit of few, under the guise of "we serve the public, and all is yours anyway and we are all equal"

Few posts back I opined on "English law", the system I propose would function under English law.

I am happy to be corrected on my math numbers.

Happens in Switzerland, where local communities can chuck someone out. I think Switzerland is a tad richer than Britain.

Take an example now, of the posters here who have or are suffering bad neighbours in council housing, "If given a choice to ask certain people to either behave or leave", would to exercise such a choice?

May I know what you found funnier?

It is only through relatively transparent public spending that corruption can be weeded out.

The repairs in your area are simply not done, is because the organisation simply is lethargic, as I said before, they are licenses to print money.

I am more than happy to go away and learn about these things, would you please direct me to a published, well peer reviewed paper on this matter? Or a textbook perhaps.

@HarrowToCroydon in Switzerland where do people go if they are “chucked out of their home”?
The streets? A hostel?
Genuine question.

The fear keeps people in check, somehow society seems to manage. Through rather right wing the SWISS.

If chucked out, they move to another canton. And they hopefully do not repeat their behaviour.

I don't know if they get displaced from each canton, where they end up.

@HarrowToCroydon gosh who knew Switzerland was so harsh.

A dystopian nightmare for immigrants who attempt to settle there. Of the Western European countries, the most right wing.

I can't see that paying minimal rent is going to cover the costs of keep building new houses and updating existing ones .

Existing low cost housing through local authority or housing association is often not well maintained or updated so why would you think this would be? Would they all be flats or would some be houses ? What would be the criteria to get somewhere with a bit more space if we wanted it ?

As to the money I would save from not paying mortgage - I don't pay a mortgage as it's all paid off (late 50s) so glad I am able to consider retirement rather than working longer to carry on paying my rent .

@HarrowToCroydon my point is this is very much a southern problem up north government staff can buy nice house in a decent area. Even if you did go down route of government housing what are you going to do with all the country mansions and private estates? Who gets those properties?

The NHS is not going down the toilet as bad as you make out, yes standards of care could be better (12 hours in A&E) but cancer care is outstanding compared to some countries. We have discussed this and both me and DH would be open to curative surgery and immunotherapy but have no interest in palliative chemo or surgery.

At the end of the day aslong as my care is effective I don't mind waiting hours in A&E or having wait for pain meds etc on a ward I would rather invest that money in bringing in newer treatments. No country can afford what we want from the NHS it would bankrupt them!

I have no interest in living a life involving diapers or even a care home so DS will get the house before that happens. Once the mortgage is paid it will also be held in a trust which is likely to be 30 years before we retire never mind consider care. This is an absolute last resort as neither of us wants to live like that anyway!

The math I have explained, IF Britain was already in this situation, I could easily reverse extrapolate this from Thatcher times to show where Britain would have been.

Mortgages are simply legislated loan sharking.

You would think thrice before taking money off a load shark.

Your point that you should be able to enjoy retirement rather than continue to pay rent having paid off your mortgage. The same would apply in mortgage free Britain, because a certain amount of (increasing) housing stock will be allocated to retired people.

Para 1 - I was not suggesting a switch to a system from where we are. Perhaps if Thatcher had not sold housing, instead built on housing, we may have had a relatively mortgage free housing.

Para 2 - I entirely agree with you. Certain parts of the NHS are going down the toilet. And YES, cancer care is superb. 2 years ago, we availed this for our ageing father. Your last line, our father took on surgery but refused chemo.

Para 3 - " No country can afford what we want from the NHS it would bankrupt them!" YES, AGREED.

Your last para,

"I have no interest in living a life involving diapers or even a care home so DS will get the house before that happens. Once the mortgage is paid it will also be held in a trust which is likely to be 30 years before we retire never mind consider care. This is an absolute last resort as neither of us wants to live like that anyway!"

For this I owe you a cup of tea, coffee, wine, beer. We are planning this already, though the trust situation has some nasties which unfortunately the current Govt. with the view that there will be little money left, are raiding.

If at all, direct message us, and maybe we meet one day.

Thank you to all who have contributed. I think this thread has run its course.

I do wish that there is light at end of the housing tunnel and that may everyone prosper and live happier lives, away from the stresses of paying their mortgages.

I live in a micro house on a large patch of land. 10acres of field and woodland and a tiny cottage with 4.5rooms for 4 people. My choice is odd, so am I. I do not want any aspect of my life dictated to me by anyone let alone the incompetent fools in government

It's interesting in as much as we don't regularly talk about alternative systems. Once on the news you'd read something like, this is the Swedish approach, or the Americans do this. Here are some pros and cons. There's no visionary politics any more. Even from the likes of the Greens. These are important questions.

I'd favour wealth redistribution. Land being given back to the people after we had it stolen with the Norman invasion. That would be a start in taking back control. And as a nation we should carefully consider what to do with our precious resources. Farming, food and housing defo. needs reconsidering.

I have an uncle who has never had to pay for his housing. It was inherited. And actually the price of the original house was under £1000. They fondly remind me that the price of their three piece suite was more expensive than the house. He is politically conservative, never had money worries. Holidayed twice or three times a year. Spent a fortune on clothes, cars etc. He does some good with his money.

We don't want to give the Government tax because we view them as crooks. And that's rather sad. We could have good government. I live housing that originally belong to a company. And they had a team that looked after their workers and the housing. It can be done well, and there are benefits in having in-house maintenance teams in some kind of building / housing association.

Short-termism is quite the enemy. The UK is actually pretty unique and has many natural resources. We are all caught up in old unsustainable practices - and can't see the wood for the trees. This country has relied on the pyramid scheme of expansion and taxation for too long. 50% of general taxation goes on health/welfare/services and pension. People are happy for the state to build and maintain roads out of the general tax pot, so why not housing?

My grandma also said she wouldn't go to a care home, my dad also said he would never send her to a care home. She ended up in a care home and my dad paid. For 1.5 years.

I can also say I will put my head in the oven before I sell my flat to pay for medical treatments but that's just talk. There are already people selling houses to pay for hip replacements, I saw it on the BBC.

Grandma also ended up in diapers. Death and illness is a leveller. Realistically you wouldn't be the one making the decisions, your Ds would get power of attorney over you and after being called by the police for the umpteenth time as his mum has started wandering around the street with a nightgown as a hat and completely starkers, he would probably make the decision that a care home for you is the best decision for everyone's sanity..

@sleepyscientist As you had pulled me up on the NHS where I referred to it going down the toilet, I should have been a bit clearer in my explanation.

The NHS was built with the math done against it was with life expectancy of around mid 60's. With people living into their 70's and 80's the numbers need to be updated.

It is the lack of math being re-done, or more precisely, the guts to stand up and take hard decisions on the numbers which is putting the NHS "down the toilet".

I have 101% respect for everyone in the NHS, just the mechanics of it's funding is left to our politicians.

And @rosetintedmemories2023 mentions, what is the use of living into dementia where the asset you intend to pass on is used to pay for your own care. The "E" word will start slowly entering mainstream media.

Though I read the last rites of this thread this morning, your @QuickDraining post has got me thinking.

I think I was wrong in saying "Government Housing", I should instead have modelled it on the "Crown Estate". Let me think a bit more on this, I will start a new thread, which will not rile people with the word Government.

Land redistribution back to only the people who can prove Anglo-Saxon ancestry back to the 11th century... what a fascinating suggestion...

My remark was about a restoration of the commons. https://www.terriwindling.com/blog/2015/09/the-commons.html

@QuickDraining has commented on your post. I cut and paste a few lines from that link

Synder in his influential book The Practice of the Wild. "In England from the time of the Norman Conquest the enfeoffed knights and overlords began to gain control over many local commons. Legislations (the Statute of Merton, 1235) came to their support.

"gain control over many local commons" -> How, apart from using force?

"Legislations came to their support". -> This sums up a lot of what I have used as replied to many posters.

We could simply start from the Thatcher era and move forwards. My thread was about "If you had no mortgage, as you lived in "secure" housing, would you live with less stress, and spend the saved money on your own upkeep?"

Why do people assume going into a care home is inevitable in older age?

Only 15% of over 85s are in care homes.

And not everyone is going to get to 85.

The vast majority of people will never have to sell their homes to pay for care.

Even if they do the average stay is 2 years at a cost of under £100k so less than most peoples house values.

https://www.mha.org.uk/get-involved/policy-influencing/facts-stats/

What the government should do is give people/communities spare/vacant land to self build. Have government mortgages for people the banks won't provide for. It's daft that benefits pay for rent but not mortgages. It's much cheaper to pay a mortgage for 25 years than rent for life.