Government sick pay after serious injury

[Monkey5050]

Hi all, hoping someone can give me some advice as I’m just out of hospital with a back injury that is going to keep me off work for the foreseeable future as it’s looking like I’m going to require surgery to hopefully get back on my feet. I am currently signed off for 3 months but realistically this is just a starting point and 6-9 months is more realistically how long I will be off for, assuming everything goes well.

my situation is that I’m a plumber, I’ve been payee employed working approx 40 hour weeks for the same company for the past 18 months. My hours and shifts always varied and I am on a 0 hours contract hence no sick pay.

I’ve never been in a situation where I’ve had the need to look to government support before so am completely clueless as to where to start. can anyone point me in the direction of which benefits I could be entitled to and roughly how much I could expect? Also I have no idea who to start speaking to about these.

there is one spanner in the works, after a break up approx 2 years ago I could not afford to keep living in my house so I rented it out and moved in with my dad. I use the surplus rent to pay off the loan I took out to give my ex her share of the equity.

many thanks and apologies for the long post.

Quick few thoughts:

Zero hours is not a reason why you don't get Statutory Sick Pay provided you otherwise meet the conditions:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/statutory-sick-pay-how-different-employment-types-affect-what-you-pay#casual-short-term-and-zero-hour-contracts

At £109.40 a week though it's not enough to live on.

Has your employer given you an SSP1 form to tell you they will not pay SSP and why?

If there is a valid SSP1, for example SSP has expired, then you might be able to claim New Style Employment and Support Allowance:

https://www.gov.uk/how-to-claim-new-style-esa

Meant to add that owning property you don't live in means you have Capital that counts for UC and may banjax a claim.

There are though some situations where it can be disregarded including that you're taking steps to sell it.

You'll need further advice and detailed advice if you want to explore that option.

If you won a property you do not live in and the equity is over 16k then you would not be eligible to claim means tested benefits.
If you have worked and paid NI contributions for the past 2-3 years you should look at claiming New style ESA - easy to apply for online via the Gov.uk website and usually paid within 3-4 weeks and has the potential to go up after assessment.
If you injury means you are going to struggle with daily living activities and / or mobility and these difficulties have been for more than 3 months and expected to last for another nine months you can look at claiming Personal independence payment ( PIP ).

Thanks Brom and Baby

theres definitely no ssp happening. It’s fairly standard in the smaller companies in the building industry round here (getting on the books for holiday and pension is a bonus in itself). I could rock the boat and fight for it but I’d rather maintain a good relationship as in all other aspects they’ve been good to me and when I’m back on my feet I’d prefer to have the work to go back to…. I know it’s not how it should be, but it’s how it is and ssp at £100 a week isn’t worth loosing their support come return to work time.

have applied for new style esa, any idea how much this is? thanks both for the lead on to this. The only thing I could find was universal credit which due to the house I can’t get unless there’s some exceptions (selling is a no as there’s a heavy penalty to get out the fixed mortgage)… really i need to just get through the next year or so somehow. Sounds like there’s hope that I can get through it all with esa for 3 months then onto pip + using my modest amount of savings… any ideas how much pip is?

Just read more into ssp from the link brom provided… I’m def not eligible as I don’t have a proper employment contract.

I agree. You should have been paying tax on your rental income and you can’t off set all your mortgage costs against it .

New style ESA assessment rate which you will start off on is around £86 a week with the potential to go once you have been assessed.
PIP, if awarded ( it's a difficult benefit to claim ) is variable amounts because you can be awarded either or both daily living and mobility components and there are two different rates for each component, so it just depends what you are awarded. Highest rates of both components works out around £170 per week, or if awarded just standard rate mobility around £23 a week.

I have been paying tax on the rental income - it’s all done properly via self assessment. Really appreciate the helpful input though.

Just to be clear, the tax implications of renting certainly need to be dealt with.

My reference to advice related to any disregards etc that might be applied were the OP to consider whether a UC claim could be made.

Thanks again baby. Would pip would run alongside esa? Or does pip remove eligibility to esa? Is the £86 subject to tax? (My tax allowance would be eaten by the rental income).

i guess if I assume £86 a week is what I’ll be eligible for I can try work out a plan from there.

You can claim New style ESA and PIP together. they are both non means tested benefits. New style ESA is taxable. The assessment rate for ESA is £86 a week, it has the potential to go up after you have been assessed if you are assessed as not being able to undertake any kind of work currently. It can take a few months to get assessed though.

Thanks - you’re a legend! :)

Realistically I won’t be able to take on any type of work at least until after surgery and until I’m off these medications. I’m assuming the time line is likely a 6 month wait before an op (I could be wrong and get fast tracked), after the op I’d guess there’s a recovery period before I probably need to look to take on some sort of office based role until I can get back on the tools…. My guess is around the 9 month from now type time so relieved to here there is possibility for esa to increase from a tax deductible £86 per week.

guess I can always sell my van to get some money as I can’t drive anyway then just lease one when I’m back on my feet…. Wasn’t sure that was a good idea as thought converting a work tool into assets would further exclude me from support.

Obv it depends how disbaled you are right now with your back , but could you work part time in a plumbers merchants on the trade counter ? Big companies like Wolsley are always looking for experienced staff .

Also could you ask your mortgage company to to reduce your payments for a while ? Or renegotiate the agreement you have with your ex?

You could give notice to your tenants, move back in yourself and take in one or two lodgers ? ( I’m assuming you are in rented accommodation right now so you can’t sublet ).

just sone thoughts. Obv you need to costs out all your options, take account of tax and benefit implications .

Just a warning, just because you think you’re not fit for any kind of work, it doesn’t mean the DWP will agree. Spoken from the experience of a close family member who was totally incapacitated, but declared fit for work by the DWP.

So I’m completely knackered… can’t even sit in a chair. By the sounds of it it’s thankfully not permanent but will require an op… until then I’m on a combo of oxicodone, dihydracodine, diflofenac and Gabapentin + a few others… that cocktail of opioids allows me to lie flat on my back in relative comfort. As and when my health improves I definitely expect to be doing something along the lines of a desk job before returning to the tools.

my ex is settled and out the picture, I paid her share of equity with a personal loan… the mortgage is an interest only but to let…. We were half way through the house renovation as we split up and my salary wasn’t enough to remortgage on my own but the equity/rental value was enough to get a btl mortgage, finish of the renovation and rent it out. We would have taken a pasting trying to sell a shell of a house as the renovation only made sense with me doing it over weekends and evenings.

i don’t want to evict them, they’re great and have their own issues that I’d not want to unsettle them for. even if I did want the house back to do something like that I’d be back at work before they were kicked out and I’d just be looking for new tenants.

not in rented, I live with my dad who’s mid 80s. He owns the house and I just pay all the bills/council tax/food etc.

probably no need to share all that but am bored shitless and stuck in bed lol.

Great advice from pp, as new style ESA and PIP are a good call. If your dad is helping you and only claims state pension, he may be eligible to claim carer’s allowance for you which may go towards replacing what you paid him for your bills.

Also PIP is a passport to other benefits like a disabled person rail card, free bus pass and so on.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/before-claiming/extra-help-pip-entitles-you-to/

This website has guides for applying for disability benefits.
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

I mean I guess I could start an only fans page. Wouldn’t have been very successful even prior to my current health situation though.

joking aside, I do get your point that not being able to do ANY type of work is quite difficult to justify.

Thanks Milli.

I don’t think it would be honest to claim he was a carer as what he’s really doing is what family should do for eachother? With the exception of me not doing anything for him and him doing all the cooking etc it’s not much of a change for him than the setup before.

def seems like new style esa is my lot. Hopefully this gives National insurance credit?

I don’t think it would be honest to claim he was a carer as what he’s really doing is what family should do for eachother?

Its totally honest if he’s putting in the 35 hours a week, and it doesn’t have to be just personal care like helping you to the loo, shower, dress it can be cooking, keeping house tidy, laundry, collecting your prescriptions, arranging to get you to and from dr appointments.

Carer’s allowance was invented to give family members a bit of money for doing care of a disabled relative as it is far cheaper than having the NHS do home visits.
https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance

It’s then a passport to council tax reduction…and other things.
You’re in a financial crisis so you need to claim everything you and your dad are entitled to because disability benefits are barely enough to survive on as is.

You say your time off sick is likely to last 9 months. To claim PIP you must have had the disability for 3 months then get evidence it will remain a disability for a further 9-12 months so 12-15 months in total. It is not based on the disability but on how it affects your day to day functions and you might have an issue if over the next 9 months you make steady improvement. You should be entitled to Statutory Sick Pay and your employer would pay it monthly and then they can claim it back from DWP. So your employer won't be out of profit. Because of equity in your house you won't get UC. You might need to put expenses on a credit card and pay minimum payments until you get back to work.

If you're "on the books for holiday and pension" I'm not sure why you wouldn't be eligible for SSP. People employed on zero hours contracts are entitled to SSP if they meet the other qualifying conditions. More info here

An employment contract can be verbal, you don't need a written document.

How did you hurt your back OP? Wondering if it was caused by something someone might be insured for?

Or if this would apply? https://www.gov.uk/industrial-injuries-disablement-benefit

Thanks, it is going to be difficult but Im not thinking it’s insurmountable… the more support I can get over the next while the less debt I have to take on at the end replacing the likes of van, tools etc if I sell up to free up money… thankfully I’m safe from the interest rate rises though this as the mortgage on the house is fixed for a good few years yet.

I guess aslong as everything’s honest on the claim the worst they can say is no.

naively I’d always assumed there would be a phone number you called, explained your circumstances and they told you how much you would get….. sort of the reverse of how you can call HMRC and an advisor will till you how much you owe!

There's a website called entitled to that can tell you what benefits you're likely to be eligible for as a rough guide
https://www.entitledto.co.uk/