Am newly separated, and have idea for keeping ds and I in family home and for less £ - sensible or crazy plan?

[Twoddle]

Ex-dp and I co-own a long 1960's bungalow, which we bought a few years ago for its potential. We are now separated, and in the process of sorting finances, who'll live where, etc.

Ex-dp has already moved into a rented flat. He's currently paying half of the (hefty) running costs of the bungalow, but can't forever - and I can't afford them on my own.

Ds (3) is settled here and will start at the village school round the corner in September. I'd like for us to be able to stay, if at all possible.

It would be possible (planning permission-permitting) to convert the bungalow to three, three-bedroomed, two-storey cottages, on the same footprint. I have had the idea of using my settlement to buy ex-dp out and have the bungalow converted into three eco-cottages, with a view to this enabling ds and I ultimately to stay exactly where we are, with much lower running costs, and possibly no mortgage. This would take the pressure off me work-wise, and I'd have more time to spend with ds.

Of course I need to do a lot of investigation into how much £ I will get exactly, how much a conversion would cost, what the properties could sell/rent for, what the future bills would be ...

If it does stack up, would I be mad to take this on as a single mum? Ds will start school in September, so I'd have that time to dedicate to it (I'd get a part-time job after the build), and I have a great support network ... clever or crazy?!

I think it's a fab idea. Very exciting and would be a way of starting a whole new life for you both. As long as the figures stack up I'd say go for it!

Yay! Thanks for encouragement, Daisy. Can't even believe I'm even contemplating this! But have wanted to design/build/live in an eco-house for sooo long - now seems like it could be the time to bite the bullet.

Cheers.

That sounds like a fab idea, if you are watching programs such as grand designs or the property ladder you should have a vague idea of the building costs, and be prepared for the fact that even the most carefully researched and budgeted build is likely to go over budget... But it sounds like a fab idea. Will you be able to live in your part at all while some of the building works go on, or will you too also have to move out into rented acommodation while they put the partition walls up, knock through the roof to extend upwards, etc?

By support network, does that mean nice friends, or family/friends who are builders and can dedicate time to do plastering/brickwork/painting etc in their spare time?

Twoddle, it sounds like a very exciting project. Draw up a budget very realistically - over exstimate/budget rather than under. Also don't use friends or family to do any of the work these things can start off well but when problems with workmanship, time keeping start to occur it can get very messy. Be on site everyday and take dated notes of what is agreed with each trades person. Be prepared to move out when all the plumbing electrics, first fix work is starting as it will be hellish to live there at the time and more importantly it will take much longer if you are trying to live there with builders working around you and thus in the long run cost you more as a project.

Grab it by the horns and enjoy it I have renovated/extended many houses and did the last with a 2 year old and a 6 month old. [smile[

Message withdrawn

Thanks for encouragement, and sensible questions.

I would be thinking of getting a good builder to do the work, with me doing a bit here and there if I could - not friends/family. I have family locally who could help take care of ds in the school holidays, and who we could stay with during the build - so no rent costs. My dad is great with figures/accounts, project management, and has an interest in building, so would help with some of the management/£ side.

I would get it thoroughly costed out beforehand, and budget a contigency for things going tits up. Our neighbour is in the building trade, so I will ask his opinion on the viability of the idea. Also, another chap in the village - a superb builder himself - is currently radically renovating a house down the road for his family, and he'd have a good sense of whether or not it'd be a goer, financially speaking and planning-wise, as would our ex-landlord, who is a local developer. I'll get their opinions first, and depending upon these, work up a budget, possibly with their help. And then if the figures stack up, it'd be worth applying for planning permission - or possibly concurrently? Big learning curve ...

Smurfs - what an encouraging tale. How the hell did you manage your last renovation with two little ones in tow?!

Thanks again ... exciting!

I think it is an excellent idea. BUT the world of divorce and family homes etc will not take kindly to this idea and your ex dp can put the kibosh on this with boiling hot water in one swop.

There is the "family home" and there is an investment to make money - two seperate things.

anniemac - I'm optimistic about planning permssion, as we always intended to take the house up into a dormer/half-height first storey, and asked our local developer friend his opinion of this before we bought it. We're at the end of a shared drive (which we own), which has two-storey cottages and houses along it, not 1960's bungalows, so what I have in mind (which, from the front, would mimic old cottages on the village street, and at the back be all glazing and solar panels and photovoltaics), would be much more in keeping with the locality - and the council's low-energy objectives - than this fuel-guzzling bungalow. Also, the house at the back of ours is on three stories, so ours kind of looks out of place at the moment. So I'm optimistic ...

Do you reckon I should apply for planning permissin first, as, without it, the budgeting effort would be wasted - or the other way around - or concurrently? Hmm.

As for funding the works, current estimates for my settlement indicate that I would be able to buy the property outright with several hundred thousand left over. I would invest this in the build, and may have to do some maths around an additional small mortgage and how to pay for this. Again - thorough investigation needed.

Thank you all - am so relieved to hear that I'm not barking mad to be contemplating this.

ivykaty44 - please can you explain a bit more? Thanks.

(Btw, ex-dp and I are not married, so no divorce law applies. As we understand it, he either buys me out, I buy him out, or we both sell up. Am I being naive?)

You have a family home to house your son, you then want to use the family home as an investment to make money from it. (yes great idea to house your son - me thinks)

Your ex dp could then say that the investment home needs to be sold and you both take your share and you have to rehouse with what is left from the sale of the house. If you are going to make money from the house it then instead should be sold so that you both profit - not just you. Or if it is your family home then you stay their as it is your sons family home - not an investment.

I would seek some legal advice on your seperation financial affairs before you decide what to do re the house.

I am not trying to dampen your plans - I think they are great, it is just that will your ex dp think they are great once he has seen how much money you may make etc? What advice will he be given legally?

Can't comment on what you're entitled to from the split (is ds his?) but get onto Planning Officer NOW!!! I'm sure the build itself, if you are staying within the existing foot print, will have no problem being approved (you will need planning permission tho' of course) I think the fact that you are planning to split one property into 3 will be your sticking point. Despite all the gumph about needing more houses local planners and residents don't always look very favourably on plot splitting - increased traffic flow, demand on school places, bin collection etc etc.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

Actually, I'd stay away from planners until you've settled with your ex-p. Any planning permission you get now will increase the value of the house and the amount you will need to pay him. Does he know what you plan to do?

I have been renovating a house as an eco-home for 3 years now, the last year with ds in tow! We are doing most of the work ourselves, so are pretty on top of the ins and outs of the eco side of things. Happy to discuss if you get to that point!

What I would say is plan for it to take much longer than you thought....

Good luck!

Hi, I would also research your market and find out what you would get for them. Ask local Estate Agents what type of house most people are looking for and your likely sale price. Play to your market. That way you'll sell them quickly and get your profit soonest.

I could keep the details of the idea from ex-dp and buy him out and then apply for planning permission, but that'd be a bit of a risk, wouldn't it? But then I suppose something like this always is, to a degree ...

Hmm.

Thanks everyone, for your thoughts.

T

What a fantastic idea! I agree with Daisymoo on not letting your intentions out into the open just yet but, you can make an enquiry with the planning offices as to whether or there are likely to be any restrictions or requirements from a council point of view. Our planning office are a great source of advise, hopefully yours will be the same.

Good luck!

Before you do anything, speak to your planning department about your intentions.

They should offer a service (appointment or drop-in) where you can speak to someone in the planning department. You can bounce ideas of them and ask their opinions, as they will be the ones who will approve it. At the very first meeting you don't even have to have plans to show them.

This way you can test the water before you spend any money. For example, if you don't have adequate access to the property for multiple buildings (and it can't be changed) your plans might be a complete non-starter. Alternatively, if they are enthusiastic about the idea but have certain stipulations, you can include these in your first set of architect plans straight (instead of paying a fortune for revised plans).

Good luck, it sounds like a great idea xx

ps it's worth speaking to a few of the different planning officers as they all have their own interpretations of the 'rules'.

Thanks, TimeForMe and ILikeToMoveItMoveIt. Good points. I have some useful contacts I could speak to, and could also visit the planning department - but I didn't want to do this "sneakily" if you like, hoping my enquiries wouldn't get back to ex-dp.

So, whether it was mad to or not, I did speak to ex-dp about my idea yesterday evening. We were talking through finances, and there came an appropriate time in the conversation to raise it. He didn't like the idea - he's attached to the property and the plans we had for it, too. But he fully understands why I'm looking into this option, and I don't think would obstruct it.

Anyway, just to explain to ivykaty44, because ex-dp and I weren't married, our settlement is not based on our having been together a long time/having a son, but on the fact that we co-own a business. I own 49%, and we have always said everything would be halved in such an instance, so that is the plan we're following - me having half the value of the business - and it isn't a settlement based on a kind of spousal maintenance for me, for example. So I would hope that this would make my plans more legitimate/acceptable in legal terms.

Thank you all for your encouragement and advice.

Yes, good plan if you can get planning permission.

Also as you're not married and presumably it's in joint names and you did not agree other than 50/50 shares I presume your partner is entitled to 50% whereas had you been married you might have got more because you would have had rights as a married woman... oopps sorry, just saw you virtually posted exactly that.

Important for MNetters to know that contrary to popular myth there are huge differences on what lower earners get on divorced compared with if they had just lived together at the moment (although there are advanced plans to change the law which again people should note before they move in a lover)

Thanks, Xenia.

Yes, more than 50% would be handy, but it's not an entitlement, legally, as you say. As it stands, not having more than the 50% in respect of the business, means it would be easier - cleaner, for want of a better word - to proceed with the build idea.

Do you have some info on these "advanced plans to change the law"?

Will get myself off to the planners ...

The Government's plan is cohabitants particularly with children in long marriages would get similar rights on separation as married couples to protect all those common law wives who have not worked for decades and are then left and have no right to maintenance from a spouse. Hopefully you'll be able to agree in advance to exclude it but even then I doubt that will be binding so the only hope then (for higher earners like me) is to turf the man out every night I suppose unless you want him to get his hands on your money. I don't think we need the law - I think people have a choice - marry or don't. I just read a book by a businessman with a funny line in it - if you fly it (private plane) or... ahem take it to bed (not his precise words) always lease it, don't own it. Had I not married my ex we'd have all been so much better off.