Pension help!

[Guineapiggiesmalls]

I’m currently mid probate hell after my poor dad died unexpectedly.

He had a very good pension with EDF and I understood that my mum, as his wife, would receive half of this. But someone has now suggested that because he took some as a lump sum upon retirement that she might be entitled to nothing. Given my mum didn’t work, I feel like it’s unlikely that my dad would have taken the lump if it would mean my mum got nothing upon his death.

I’ve obviously queried this with the pension administrator, but they’re taking time to let me what what my mums entitlement is (if anything!).

Has anyone any passing knowledge of pensions and could shine any light on it?!

Most give you a percentage of the full pension, so your mum should get something.

I presume the EDF pension was based on those in the Electricity Boards when they were publicly owned so will be based on a similar template to other public sector schemes.

As others say I'd expect there to be a widows pension of around half, mabe a bit less of what they were paying your father during his lifetime.

Aside from caveats around whether they were married when he retired I cannot think of any other reason why there would not be a widow's element.

My pension is from the Civil Service. Historically the main pension was non-contributory but you paid a percentage, initially 1.5% but it went up massively post 2010, for a widows and orphans pension. I don't think you could opt out while serving but, IIRC, if you were unmarried at the time you retired you got the money back.

Sorry for your loss.

If your DD took a lump sum, the monthly payment would have been reduced to account for this. It would be normal for your DM to get half of whatever monthly income your DD was receiving. This is the most likely scenario.

That said, pension scheme rules do vary and payments are usually at the discretion of the trustees. If your DM is more than 10 years younger than your DD, often the payment is reduced to account for the extra expected lifespan of the surviving spouse. You may find the scheme booklet amongst your DD’s papers, but otherwise only the administrator can confirm.

Thanks all

It’s reassuring to think you’re more or less on the same page as me, but I think I’ll be anxious about it until we hear back from the administrator.

@Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight no sign of the pension booklet, and I’ve spent literal hours trawling the internet trying to find one!

“But someone has now suggested that because he took some as a lump sum upon retirement that she might be entitled to nothing.”

OK, who is this “someone”? I can’t tell whether you’re getting worried about comments from someone who may be in a position to face valid info, or just some random in the pub!

This Ofgem questionnaire is useful for EDF as it details several different schemes historically within in. For most though, lump sum and spousal on death are pretty similar - maximum lump sum would have been 25% and it’s only the remaining pension where the spouse gets 50%.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2009/07/ofgem_db_pension_questionnaire---esps.pdf

But where has this lump sum comment come from - someone who knew him?

There was a period when people were transferring out of Final Salary pensions - basically, the pension administrator gave them a cash settlement, nothing more due. For some people it was a bad decision, for others it was a gift - and at one point the transfer values were extremely generous!

If your dad did this, there would be nothing due to your mum - he’d no longer be in the EDF pension. Who should though, have a massive bank balance! (hopefully not burned through!)

This could actually be one of the scenarios where is was a good decision - she’d get the lot, not 50% (albeit 50% of a DB scheme).

I couldn’t find anything quickly on line about EDF transfers out, but I did find one compensation firm fishing for EDFers - so, I guess it was possible.

Is it possible that your dad did this?
Or that the “someone” wrongly thinks they did?
It’s not a “lump sum” in pensions terminology, but in casual speech I’m sure some would describe it thus.

A lot of people did, though I think it’s about 10 years since it was at its peak - it’s quite hard to get authorisation for it now.

Your dad might still have had a monthly income depending on how he managed the money, if he did do a transfer out. The quickest way to check if he was still a member of EDF scheme would be name on statement of incoming monthly payment.

The administrator should very quickly see if he transferred out, too.

NHS here when your DF got given his pension he would have received a letter stating about the widows pension. My DH took a lump sum and I get 3 months full and the half for my life if he dies. I don’t think taking a lump sum will stop your DM from getting the widows pension. Sorry for your loss.

the half is then half

Unless like PP points out he took a full payout if he just took the 25% then he is still an active member.

@keepmovingon “NHS here when your DF got given his pension he would have received a letter stating about the widows pension”

The OP is talking about EDF pension scheme, not NHS. You can’t assume that two completely different schemes got the same letter! I’m an active member of a DB FS scheme, we just get a line in the letter telling us to refer to scheme booklet (online link in letter, or a number to call for hard copy).

@Testina point taken I was just trying to help as you say he may not have received a letter.

I administer these types of pensions (not EDF) for a living, and I suspect the 'someone' has got confused between taking 25% cash at retirement and a total trivial commutation. Assuming he has still been receiving an ongoing annual pension she will almost certainly get something (and depending on whether the 50% is defined in the EDF rules as pre/post commutation it might actually be more than 50% of what he's getting now.

Sorry to hear about your loss xx

DH died this year....three pension schemes, three different sets of rules. Only they can answer the question. One of DH's won't even pay out until probate is granted, even though it's not necessary in his case.