Child wants to do foundation course, no student finance. Options??

[crossstitchingnana]

As per title. We have £3000 in savings. That's it. No idea how anyone, unless rich, can support their child with no student finance. They'll need fees, housing and living costs.

Any tips? Ie can they claim UC? We're obviously looking at a bank loan, alongside the one we already have. Feeling really anxious about it.

I would appreciate any advice you have.

Thank you.

I work in this area.

I agree about the money making scheme that is auditioning; the one school that was vehemently against it sadly closed this year (the MTA, great school).

The business is weighted towards those with money, this is true. But it’s also true that people who don’t get in first time, or who go via other short course means, go on to have successful careers so just because your DC didn’t get a degree course this year doesn’t mean they won’t ever make it. A friend of mine who is now what I would call famous, auditioned three years in a row before she got an offer from RADA.

However: there’s foundation and there’s foundation. Just as these things are only open to those with the money, it means that you also get those with money doing these courses and maybe very talented people without the money don’t do them, and so you need to do proper due diligence to where they have a place; do graduates of this course go on to full training? Do they work? Or do they get taken on by the ‘in house agency’ and never actually make any money?

It is all a bit of a ‘right place, right time’ lottery to some extent unfortunately but there’s more than one way to do things and bankrupting yourself or your family before you start isn’t something I’d advise, I was crazy poor during my training and it was a gamble but I knew I had a reasonable chance of work at the end of it and I went to a reputable school so I thought it was worth it.

Oh and funding wise- I was late 20s and it was a while ago so I took out £10k CDL and worked my ass off doing anything anyone would pay me for! Every evening working front of house and then working shifts every day at weekends. Barely a day off- but I’m sitting backstage in a west end theatre now so I guess it paid off! 😁

I'd suggest a year out, a job and keep up with their classes and performing and then applying again next year. They may well have more confidence second time around.

There’s a lovely thread on the Facebook group What I Wish I knew About University WIWIKAU. The poster is delighted that their DC got into first choice of drama school after 4 years.
might be worth a look?

Hi @Comefromaway I was hoping you'd turn up!

For drama that might work well, but if it is musical theatre it is really difficult. Local dance schools for instance, only teach up to 18 and after that, there's little provision. So it is pretty much impossible to stay match-fit, so to speak.

I would like some cake

Thank you, your post is giving me hope. I hope that with our inevitable bank loan and her working whilst studying, we'll get through.

I am scared about how it will impact us, financially, but want to help her. I am going to call the school and ask hard questions about success rates after the course and to ask about scholarships.

Thank you.

blacksax

It is musical theatre. Which is why, as they are now already 20, I don't want them to take a year out.

Hi, I’m not sure where you live but I know Arts Ed in Chiswick does intensive evening courses so she’d be able to work whilst training to reaudition next year, but I don’t know what the fees are like I’m afraid. I had a job interview there about 6 years ago to teach on their musical theatre course (got pipped at the post at the final stage and was gutted!) but my knowledge is probably a bit out of date. It is so unbelievably competitive as a field, and I wish her all the best.

it is a massive workload for the school

how much is the course?
is it because she is not immediately out of school?
i thought a foundation course was vital to art?

Honestly- you will hear a lot of scare stories about in MT how if you’re not at Central by 19 you haven’t got a hope but some of the most successful people I know did a MT postgrad following an unrelated degree! Loads of people I did my first (non theatre) degree with did unrelated courses and did the university theatre society and then went and did an MA in musical theatre and went on from that. It’s along the lines of what I did.

Voices mature. You also get a bit more comfortable in your body and can break the mindset of ‘dance 10 hours a day on 500 calories’. At 18 you’re so eager to please. At 25 you have a bit more critical thinking. I’ve been told before I will never work again if I piss XYZ off. Turns out that’s nonsense.

A guy I’ve known since I was a kid trained at 18, we are now in our 40s. Two years ago he got his first west end contract. Last year he won a major theatrical award. A friend I trained with over 10 years ago has just got her first number 1 tour, she’s spent most of the last 10 years working on a stage door!

Hard work and perseverance will get you further in theatre than bags of money or exceptional talent. If you have the latter without the former you will eventually get a name for yourself that you won’t deliver the goods 8 shows a week.

good luck to you all!

It's not pissing on their dreams.

In my school loads of us wanted to do medicine.

There was a quiet falling away from age 14 onwards as it became obvious some of us weren't going to get the grades.

They all coped and many went on to have careers that are frankly a lot more enjoyable and rewarding than medicine.

Your child has to face a common challenge of adult life. If it's really their dream they will do am-dram and return to study acting later on in life.

Be really honest, if they failed auditions at this point, are they really good enough for what is an oversubscribed career that really means a lot of time being a waiter ?
I would make them do a gap year to earn enough, and hope they are getting their performant experience in amateur groups

I disagree with this.
Foundation degree places are very competitive too. If you get a place you will be taught a whole different set of skills that will absolutely help with the next round of auditions. They are a world away from the amateur groups.
I realise this doesn't help with the funding issue though.

I managed to apply for funding from a number of charities and charitable funds.

Get your teen on to the case of finding finance.

Start with this book https://www.dsc.org.uk/publication/the-directory-of-grant-making-trusts-2022-23/

There will be a copy in your local library.

I made a spreadsheet of everything I could apply to, I applied to about 100 each year.

Most did not even reply but some did and I went through their processes and got funding.

Some ideas for funding

https://www.spotlight.com/news-and-advice/tips-and-advice/fund-your-performing-arts-training-and-career/

To be honest, having failed the audition may be a useful steer for her to rethink her plans. There are a huge number of very talented people wanting to forge a career in performing arts and it is extremely competitive. The vast majority of the people who try to make a career in performing arts will not be earning enough over the duration of the careers to pay back even their "normal" student finance, let alone the additional investment of extra debt to pay for an unfunded foundation year.

Does the university have other related courses that are easier to get on to, and does it have a thriving amateur dramatics society and performance opportunities? Not many people know this but at most universities if you are registered on any course you are allowed to attend ("audit") the lectures of other courses. If your DD could get a place on a Theatre Studies or Film Studies course for example (either entering the foundation year but accepted onto the full Bachelor Degree course, or into the Firsr Year if foundation is unnecessary) then she can supplement her theatre/film studies work with also auditing as much of the Performing Arts course as possible (they may not allow extra attendees at Workshop classes) and doing lots of Amateur Dramatics performance too, then she'll be in just as strong a position to apply this time next year for the Performing Arts course proper as an internal transfer candidate, with no less a chance of success (although still may be unsuccessful of course) and no additional career development loan needed.

Student Finance rules allow you one "hiccup" - eg doing year 1 of one course, realising it was wrong and restarting to do year 1 of a different course, so it's always possible to do one more year than the standard number of years for your course, but be careful because if you deliberately use this flexibility to start off with, it wouldn't be available a second time if something went wrong later on during the course.

This. Very sensible advice.

Also, thinking a long way ahead, have you read the ‘I can’t afford to retire ‘ threads, from women who didn’t get a proper job and save for the inevitable.

Tell her to get a proper qualification first and then go to theatre school, and she can pay for it, not us tax payers 🙄

Tell her to get a proper qualification first and then go to theatre school, and she can pay for it, not us tax payers 🙄

There’s a really snippy and unpleasant tone to your post. If you have ever watched something on television, been to a west end end show or listened to the radio you have enjoyed the output of someone who has done professional arts/music/theatre training. And the OP is completely within her rights asking for advice for funding, I absolutely think that performing arts training should be an opportunity for everyone who shows the aptitude for it, not just be the preserve of wealthy parents who can afford to support their children.

I’m a professionally trained musician, who realised early on in my career that the gig economy/freelance/unreliable income scene was not for me, so I did a PGCE and have been a teacher ever since whilst performing and coaching alongside my day job. I actually agree that getting as many accredited qualifications as you can as early as you can gives you more options later, but the skills you learn and the discipline you need to do a professional standard performing arts qualification are absolutely massive. And there are a great number of transferable skills and resilience that you learn from this.

During covid we didn’t all sit on the sofa and watch accountants do their job did we? (And before anyone piles on me, my DH works with the emergency services and worked all the way through covid and I’m a teacher who worked all the way through) my point is that entertainment is something we all seek and benefit from and is a massive industry. It is as valid a career choice as anything else.

@Whattodo121
not snippy - realistic. I work in something you can retrain in mid life, and we have people in their late 30s and 40s who have followed their dream, and it has led them nowhere. They are angry no one gave them any advice, angry they havnt a hope in hell of buying a house and angry they won’t be retiring before they are 75 if they want a full state pension, never mind a work based one. I have mentored so many students who are so full of tears, and regrets and anger and that makes me sad, that no one said Get a Proper Job First. I mop tears, hold hands, hug these young people, and reassure them they are doing well in our profession and will be a credit to it.

Your post describes you actually doing what I suggest this young adult does, ie get a proper qualification and then use spare time to do what you love, so I don’t know why you feel I am being snippy and not utterly utterly practical.

And of course I watch telly and go to the theatre, but that only needs a small amount of people, the rest need to get real

I also agree with lots of your post but again the last sentence feels unkind.

And of course I watch telly and go to the theatre, but that only needs a small amount of people, the rest need to get real

But how are they supposed to know to ‘get real’ if they can’t access the training (through inadequate funding) to let them see if they’re good enough? You have to audition to get onto a foundation course, they’re not just a consolation prize for people who don’t get immediately onto the degree course. They’re still very competitive. The idea of them is to up your skills across the board and then prepare you for the challenges of a full triple threat musical theatre course. It’s really common for kids to have two areas they’re really strong in and then be weaker in another. The foundation course allows them to work on their skills in a really intensive way to prepare them for it. this will be more necessary than ever after the interruption caused by covid, there will have been two years where proper rigorous dance training will have been impossible and performance experience also impossible.

Now I’m never going to make use of a sports science degree, but I don’t want to discourage people from studying it because of my tax payers money, just because I personally don’t see the need for it.

The link I posted earlier (GSA) offers an MT foundation which is SLC eligible.

Erm you do realise these are actual degrees right? You can get a graduate job at the big4 after if you want to. Same with history, philosophy or any number of other 'academic' degrees.

Are they personally passionate enough ? Of the standard that will succeed? If so I'm sure they will find ways and means of ensuring they get a place.

My son just started acting at LMA in Liverpool but they have a campus in London too. They are quite new and I'm sure they had places in clearing last year. Might be worth contacting them. He loves it. It's just performing acts type subjects. Plus fees are a bit lower!!!!