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Original poster

Elderly df and foreign banks

28 replies

Limetart · 29/03/2023 06:53

My df is stubborn. And 90.
He has two bank accounts. One in Ireland and one in Scotland. He lives in England.
We're now in the position of needing to pay for some care. He hasn't managed his money properly for 2 years and refused to let us take out power of attorney.
The problem is that his Irish bank just don't understand our need to access his money.
He doesn't have 2 step authentication because he doesn't have a smart phone.
He has a bank card but sometimes they just block his transactions.
He used to be able to move money online but isn't capable now. We have no idea how to get into his online banking.
We can't put a chq in his uk bank because branches are in Scotland. And it could take a lot longer and cost more.
He needs his own money and just can't get it.
I asked if I could set up an app for him on my phone and the bank said absolutely not.
What do we do?

OP posts:
Original poster
Limetart · 29/03/2023 06:56

And to add he has a double taxation agreement but the Irish authorities started taxing him too in 2021 and I cannot get anyone to listen on this problem either so he's paying double tax.

OP posts:
SnailKite · 29/03/2023 06:58

Buy him the cheapest possible smartphone, give the bank the number and help him use it to authenticate?

I’m not sure that would actually be any different from setting up an app on your own phone, though.

How does the bank say it makes its services accessible to elderly and disabled people?

SnailKite · 29/03/2023 07:00

I’m not sure I understand why you can’t put a cheque into his Scottish bank. Won’t they accept one by post?

Blogdog · 29/03/2023 07:09

What Irish bank is he using? AIB has a dedicated phone line for elderly people. As another poster said though your best bet is to just get a very cheap or second hand smart phone and set up online banking. There really isn’t any other way around this if he is living nowhere near a branch.

On the tax point - hard to say without knowing the ins and outs of this but if he has Irish source income it will be liable to Irish tax. Usually you can offset this against your UK tax liability when you fill in your UK tax return.

Myneighbourskia · 29/03/2023 07:37

Is his Irish account just a savings account or is he receiving income into it?

Myneighbourskia · 29/03/2023 07:42

I can understand the Irish bank being reluctant. For all they know, you could be attempting fraud. You need to get your father on the phone to talk to them and be there too. Put it on loudspeaker. They will find some solution. Taxwise, if he's receiving income in Ireland, he obviously needs to be taxed on this.

MrsClatterbuck · 29/03/2023 07:49

I would try the Power of attorney again but come from the angle of if anything happens to him ie he becomes incapacitated through a stroke or something else and needed to go into a home how would he access these funds without you having one because then his affairs would be taken over by the office of Care and Protection and basically the government would be managing his money and not family.. POA is also for health.
We didn't enact my parents POA but I had a separate mandate for their bank account which they authorised which let me write cheques set up and cancel dds and s/o plus I had a,separate card which I used to get them cash and make purchases on their behalf. I imagine those banks have something similar. Not easy when they are that stubborn.

Mirabai · 29/03/2023 07:58

You are totally stuffed without PoA although it is possible to get a low level of authorisation to deal with his account without it if your dad fills out a form.

It’s all very well suggesting a cheap smart phone but if his cognition is declining even without dementia, to the point that he cannot manage his money online, he probably won’t be able to use a smartphone either. Had this problem with my own father.

You can send his cheques by post to the Scottish bank if you have his book of paying in slips.

Mirabai · 29/03/2023 08:05

We didn't enact my parents POA but I had a separate mandate for their bank account which they authorised which let me write cheques set up and cancel dds and s/o plus I had a,separate card which I used to get them cash and make purchases on their behalf. I imagine those banks have something similar. Not easy when they are that stubborn.

Yes you can get a mandate with a low level of authorisation.

Getting a secondary card for is a good idea. It will let you spend and pay in money on your dad’s behalf, I have this for my mother so I can do her shopping. Although there are limitations on what you can do as you will not be the main account holder and you will still always need your dad’s authorisation for any phone call so he will need to be with you and compos mentis when you ring.

Original poster
Limetart · 29/03/2023 08:28

Thanks so much for all of the replies.
I didn't know about elderly line for AIB.
My df has been so difficult over letting us help and none of his dc live within 80 miles.
Last year he eventually let me set up dd's on his scottish bank account.
He really is very difficult to deal with and will shout and accuse us of interfering.
He has huge issues with being in control.

OP posts:
helpfulperson · 29/03/2023 08:30

If you have the book of paying in slips I think you can pay cheques in at a post office.

Mirabai · 29/03/2023 08:32

Limetart · 29/03/2023 08:28

Thanks so much for all of the replies.
I didn't know about elderly line for AIB.
My df has been so difficult over letting us help and none of his dc live within 80 miles.
Last year he eventually let me set up dd's on his scottish bank account.
He really is very difficult to deal with and will shout and accuse us of interfering.
He has huge issues with being in control.

If he lives that far from you, even if you have a secondary card which will be helpful in certain scenarios, you will never be able to ring the bank to speak to them as they have to get his permission first and for that he has to be with you.

Elderly people do become a bit like children so if he doesn’t actually have dementia you have to leave him to the consequences of his actions. No PoA no access to money no carers.

Mirabai · 29/03/2023 08:33

helpfulperson · 29/03/2023 08:30

If you have the book of paying in slips I think you can pay cheques in at a post office.

You can just send them to the bank by post.

Original poster
Limetart · 29/03/2023 08:37

Mirabai · 29/03/2023 08:32

If he lives that far from you, even if you have a secondary card which will be helpful in certain scenarios, you will never be able to ring the bank to speak to them as they have to get his permission first and for that he has to be with you.

Elderly people do become a bit like children so if he doesn’t actually have dementia you have to leave him to the consequences of his actions. No PoA no access to money no carers.

Show quote history

If only i could.
Unfortunately my siblings ring me all the time.

Df is definitely getting dementia

OP posts:
Original poster
Limetart · 29/03/2023 08:41

I'll ring the bank today and see about paying chqs in and what the fee is.
The thing is dad will not just let me do anything if i need him there with me to give permission until it's been explained 10 times for 20 minutes.
It's so draining.

OP posts:
Mirabai · 29/03/2023 08:41

Why are they ringing you and not dealing with it themselves?

Most elderly people lose cognitive function as they age, but if he is getting dementia you need to get PoA before he loses capacity.

Mirabai · 29/03/2023 08:48

Limetart · 29/03/2023 08:41

I'll ring the bank today and see about paying chqs in and what the fee is.
The thing is dad will not just let me do anything if i need him there with me to give permission until it's been explained 10 times for 20 minutes.
It's so draining.

Oh yeah, welcome to my world.

I would contact his GP and ask them to call him in for dementia testing. If he fails the test they will refer him to a neurologist/geriatrician for dementia assessment, (bearing in mind on the NHS the referral could take a while and anyway GP’s tests set the bar quite low so my dad was diagnosed with dementia before he started to fail the GP tests.)

Mirabai · 29/03/2023 08:50

Sorry I meant to ask - if you explain the situation to his GP - would they have a word with him and explain the needs to set up PoA in order to retain access to his own money? My dad has a great GP whose father also has dementia.

Original poster
Limetart · 29/03/2023 09:32

Mirabai · 29/03/2023 08:50

Sorry I meant to ask - if you explain the situation to his GP - would they have a word with him and explain the needs to set up PoA in order to retain access to his own money? My dad has a great GP whose father also has dementia.

My father's gp is shocking.
Last year I stood at reception begging for someone to do a wellness check on him.
They said no, he had to ring the surgery and have a telephone appointment and then they would decide if to do f2f.
I explained he would just say he's fine when he is not.
They don't care.
They've been out this week because the nurse has called them.
Bit late now.

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Myneighbourskia · 29/03/2023 09:40

Solidarity. My dad still insists on driving at 80 even though he can only turn his neck to one side, so can't look right when he's turning. The GP signed him off though, so, what can we do? Like your dad he's adamant about doing everything his own way and he thinks he knows everything, so nothing to be done.

Caterina99 · 29/03/2023 09:58

What bank is it in Scotland? We’ve had half the banks close in our town and we can pay cheques in for our bank (nearest branch now an hour away) at the post office.

My grandad is 90, does not have dementia, but definitely isn’t able to manage online banking, complicated phone calls etc. My mum is set up on his account and she can access the online banking with the codes to her phone etc and keep an eye on it, but he still gets the paper statements sent to him.

Mirabai · 29/03/2023 09:59

Myneighbourskia · 29/03/2023 09:40

Solidarity. My dad still insists on driving at 80 even though he can only turn his neck to one side, so can't look right when he's turning. The GP signed him off though, so, what can we do? Like your dad he's adamant about doing everything his own way and he thinks he knows everything, so nothing to be done.

Of course there is something to be done and it’s irresponsible that you have not.

What you can do is notify the GP that he is not fit to drive and report his disability to the DVLA.

If the the family personally notify a GP that their elderly relative is not fit to drive, they are unlikely to ignore that due to their liability if the patient had an accident. They could end up having to explain that to a court.

It’s very important as elderly people are a key cause of fatal accidents to themselves and others.

We contacted the GP and the DVLA ourselves.

Mirabai · 29/03/2023 10:13

Limetart · 29/03/2023 09:32

My father's gp is shocking.
Last year I stood at reception begging for someone to do a wellness check on him.
They said no, he had to ring the surgery and have a telephone appointment and then they would decide if to do f2f.
I explained he would just say he's fine when he is not.
They don't care.
They've been out this week because the nurse has called them.
Bit late now.

Show quote history

I’m sorry to hear that. The way to get the dementia test is make an appointment for him and take him yourself. The issue of PoA could be discussed with GP who could explain its importance to your father. But obviously at 80 miles distant that’s highly problematic.

Original poster
Limetart · 29/03/2023 10:51

Caterina99 · 29/03/2023 09:58

What bank is it in Scotland? We’ve had half the banks close in our town and we can pay cheques in for our bank (nearest branch now an hour away) at the post office.

My grandad is 90, does not have dementia, but definitely isn’t able to manage online banking, complicated phone calls etc. My mum is set up on his account and she can access the online banking with the codes to her phone etc and keep an eye on it, but he still gets the paper statements sent to him.

Thanks. I'll chk at Post Office.

OP posts:
Original poster
Limetart · 29/03/2023 10:56

Myneighbourskia · 29/03/2023 09:40

Solidarity. My dad still insists on driving at 80 even though he can only turn his neck to one side, so can't look right when he's turning. The GP signed him off though, so, what can we do? Like your dad he's adamant about doing everything his own way and he thinks he knows everything, so nothing to be done.

Goodness.
Fortunately my df hasn't driven since a van hit his car 4 years ago. Not df's fault as the van came out of a side road. However I asked df if it had been a dc on a bike coming out could he have stopped in time?
After that conversation he gave up driving.

OP posts: