Suspected benefit fraud - any advice?

[rosygirl13]

Hi everyone, bit of a long one but any help would be much appreciated.

My mum has been reported for benefit fraud.
A bit of a backstory, she also has bipolar and is a pathological liar so I never know what’s the truth and what’s not with her.

I found a letter from DWP addressed to her, opened and hidden in the kitchen. In the letter it states clearly that they are investigating a claim for failure to report change in circumstances for ESA and housing benefit, and need to interview her under caution.
The letter just gives details about what will happen and where to go but, my mum is claiming her benefits have been completely stopped. She is also claiming she hasn’t received a letter from DWP telling her what she’s being investigated for or any information. She swears blind she has no idea what she’s being investigated for, yet I have seen the letter with my own eyes so I know this is a lie. She tells me she has only received phone calls from an unknown number, and they won’t give her any information which again makes no sense.
Since she’s already completely lied about one thing, I’m seriously doubting the fact her benefits have been stopped too and she’s using this to play the victim, along with wrangling money out of family members that feel sorry for her - i.e me!

Basically what I’m asking is, are your benefits stopped before you’ve been interviewed / and a investigation has actually been followed through? or only once they’ve committed her of it? Seems strange to me they’d stop her benefits before she’s actually been committed of something! Do the DWP send out a separate letting informing you that your benefits have been stopped or would this of been in the letter inviting her in under caution?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I don’t know if it’s helpful to add that she recently switched from the old style benefits to universal credit, and received the full award back in February which was her first payment from them. It’s March that’s in question. Would her entire universal credit be stopped as she’s being investigated for ESA and it’s completely separate? She does receive the housing element in universal credit too so would this also be stopped as she’s being investigated for housing benefit.

Only asking this because you mention Bipolar, but has she been subject to a Section and hospital stay recently?

No she hasn’t x

Ok, only asking because although being in hospital for less than 28 days shouldn't matter, sometimes if someone is hospitalised for longer than that and DWP are not informed, it can affect certain benefits and lead to things like Housing Benefit not being paid.

If your mum hasn't been in hospital then obviously that's not the issue, but apart from that I'm at a loss to explain what else it could be. I may just be that as part of the change from ESA to UC they've requested some information and she has failed to provide it. Not an 'offence' as such, but they will use things like this to sanction people and reduce their benefits until it is sorted. I might be that your mum is completely innocent and the problem is entirely on DWP's end, but I wouldn't leave it any longer before dealing with it because they are unlikely to magically sort it out by themselves.

Does your mum have an Advocacy Worker, Support Worker, or access to a Welfare Rights service who could look into it with her?

Symptoms of bipolar disorder include ; experience symptoms of psychosis, where the person see or hear things that are not there or become convinced of things that are not true.

Is she taking her medication regularly and has she had an evaluations recently?

I know that she has committed benefit fraud. She started working last year and failed to report a change in circumstances obviously enjoying the extra money. Only now has it come back to bite her as she’s been reported for it and they are investigating her. Thank you for your advice, she doesn’t have anyone like that in place as she genuinely believes she is one hundred percent well. I’m just questioning whether in fact she is telling the truth about her benefits being stopped as everything else is a lie.

To my knowledge she’s been taking her medication and no she hasn’t had any evaluations. I live with her and have lived with her bipolar all my life so have a good understanding of her behaviour when she’s not on medication which makes me believe she is taking it. She compulsively lies about many things to great extents, hence the claim she hasn’t received a letter and doesn’t know what she’s being investigated for when I know she has. She also has narcissistic tendencies so quite often likes to play the victim and have people feeling sorry for her. Sounds harsh, but it’s a lot to deal with especially from your mum who constantly lies to you and about you to others. X

From what you say I don't think there's much you can do.
If she is deemed to have capacity then she is responsible for her own affairs.
Sorry x

Well it seems they have her bang to rights to be honest. Best thing she can do is go to the meeting and be entirely 100% honest with them about what happened.

In most small scale cases like this they will settle for the fraudulently claimed money being paid back, but if she tries to deny it or refuses to cooperate it's unlikely to end well for her.

I understand what you mean about not trusting her and not knowing the truth because of her lies, but if you know for a fact she was working while also claiming benefits on the premise that she was unfit for work, then there doesn't seem to be any doubt that DWP have cottoned on, especially since you have seen the letter yourself.

I honestly can't say whether or not they will have stopped her benefits entirely, but I know that where they are convinced the claim is 100% fraudulent they will normally put a stop to the payments until proven otherwise. The best thing you can do is convince her to cooperate, but I honestly think she needs someone who understands both her Bipolar condition, and how DWP operate to accompany her to the meeting.

Can you Google search for a 'Mental Health Advocacy Service' or 'Welfare Rights Advice' in your local area? There should be someone providing Mental Health Advocacy, and it would be good to get in touch with them. Important to state though that neither you, nor the service can force your mum to work with them, so it has to be with her consent, but it really would be advisable for her to go along accompanied by someone who knows how these things work and who can also speak for her if that's required.

Hello
theres a gov.uk page on benefit fraud
Gov.uk benefit fraud

it says benefits ‘May’ be suspended during investigation.

She needs to get legal advice or at least local CAB support ASAP. Some benefit fraud can carry serious penalties including a criminal record. All overpaid money must be repaid so a good negotiator is needed to set the payments too. If the suspension of benefit is leaving her in significant hardship the advisor at CAB or local law centre should be able to argue for reinstatement

good luck.

They will stop benefits if she isn’t attending the interview. She will need an appropriate adult- could this be you? I would also highly recommend legal advice although this won’t be necessarily free if it’s a voluntary interview. If it’s reached interview under caution stage it’s highly likely they have strong evidence. I would call them and make sure they know about her bipolar and how it affects her.

It’s common to stop benefits as otherwise the agency would be deemed to be putting the claimant further into debt in the event of fraud being committed

If DWP have got to the point of an interviewing under caution then they absolutely know for sure she has been working.

Sorry. Posted too soon. So very important to have some one with her at the interview.the appropriate adult service as a pp mentioned would help.

Thank you everyone for your responses. She says she’s done nothing wrong so for sure won’t admit it to them. She also says she ‘can’t be bothered’ to think about or prepare for it, so will be going alone. X

I am mystified OP why you don't think she shouldn't have here benefits stopped when you know she was working and claiming

I never said she shouldn’t have her benefits stopped. I said she SAID they had been, and I didn’t believe her as she had lied to me about the simple details of the case against her. I don’t work for the DWP nor have I ever been suspected of benefit fraud so I have no idea how these things work. I thought you had your benefits stopped once you were committed, hence why I asked for advice!

Hi op , could you access her bank statements ?

I had my benefits stopped while I was pregnant for failing to apply for a job they had recommended to me. The reason I didn't apply for it was because it was past the closing date and the position had been filled, I knew somebody who worked for the company and they were fed up with the job centre sending them people! I was left 6 weeks with literally nothing to live on. I had to borrow money from family to eat.

If she has failed to attend an interview could be via phone or in person then yes the benefits could be stopped as a way of forcing contact. If she is hiding letters then it’s likely she could have missed an interview.

The working while claiming could have come about by records being matched with HMRC’s records.

HMRC can tell them when she started work and what her earnings were. If she has failed to make contact with them when requested then they could have already made the decision and her benefits have been recalculated to include her earnings or removed if by working meant she no longer qualified for something like ESA.

if she is still working now and didn’t tell UC then her UC would be amended to take into account the earnings and would reduce the amount of UC she should have got and what she is entitled to going forwards.

Well, if she is working of course the DWP would have become aware through HMRC that she was now employed and paying tax but that she failed to report the change in circumstances.

All she can do now is attend the interview and explain why she did not report the change.

I would suggest you go with her and explain that her bipolar condition affects her ability to manage her life by herself and that she did not do this to purposely commit fraud but simply got mixed up...

Hopefully they will put a repayment plan in place for her to pay back the money.

I don't know how old you are but I would also move out of your mother's home and start living your own life because it sounds like her behaviour is really affecting you.