Tax credit overpayment - after 13 years!!

[whatyoulookingfor]

Many years ago... In 2010/11 until 2012/13 I had a tax credit over payment. I can't recall the specific details but I know I had informed them of changes to my income but they never amended my claim. It was a joint claim with my ex husband.

In Feb 2013 I was told I needed to set up a payment plan as I was no longer claiming tax credits and I began paying £40 a month for 106 months! I have a letter dated April 2015 (when I applied for my mortgage I needed evidence) that states I owed £4,276.16 and had agreed the above payment plan which should end on 05/03/22

I have been paying this back since then and they contacted me in April 2016 saying I needed to put the payments up to £55 a month. So since then I have been paying this. According to the letter, I therefore should have paid this back years ago due to the increased payments.

I should add that they have never asked my ex husband to pay a penny of this - according to them I agreed to pay the entire amount - I absolutely did not, but whatever.

I rang them today to ask why they are still taking the money, and they said that I still owe them another £2,700!!! I asked how that is possible and they said that in 2016 they added an extra £3,500 to the debt! I asked when that was from and they said it was for the year 2012/13. But I have a letter from 2 years after that which says I only owed the original amount! They just said they didn't know and I need to write a letter asking for a break down.
This can't possibly be right. How can I be still paying this back over 13 years later and it not be anywhere near paid off. How can they keep adding money for years after? And why is it that they are only chasing me for this debt?

But mostly is there anything I can do about it? I don't mind paying off the original £4,200 but this is just killing me now, and I'm going to be still paying it off at this rate after 18 years!

The handler should have been able to access all years to confirm why you were paid too much. Not rocket science, I used to do that exact job. Ring and ask for a transfer to debt management. They’ll have details of your payment plan and why it hasn’t reduced the balance.

That's who I spoke to and what I put in my post is what they said. Apparently they added more money to the debt in 2016 over 3 years after they I stopped claiming.

Good luck, they do what they bloody like at HMRC, 9 years ago after I was pregnant with dd they told me that I was entitled to money, that they had under paid me due to my pregnancy and together with the representative we worked it out to be 3700, so I went through all the necessary steps and they then turned around And told me I was too late and that there was a 12 month limit. I tried everything to get them to give me the money but to no avail. I don’t trust them at all, if it wasn’t because I needed it so bad I’d have told them to do one by now. It’s like talking to a brick wall...

They make up their own rules and are often really incompetent, it’s a disgusting system as people have no recourse, we have to do as they say, they can literally make up a figure and we have no way of challenging because they take no notice and threaten action

When I have had over payments from past years and was a joint claim with estranged Husband the amount was always halved. You do really need to sort this out with HMRC. There is no way I would pay full knowing that half is estranged Husband's debt.
I am currently paying back an overpayment of £3200 and HMRC are taking about £75 a week from benefit. I had to pay all this in 1 year! The payments are coming to an end in March but I bet they will send me another letter in April about more overpayments.
It all feels frustrating as I always keep them up to date with any changes etc.

Maybe you could get advice from your local Citizens Advice Bureau?

My sympathies. I received a letter on Saturday to say that I was overpaid £1745. After a stressful weekend I finally got through to hmrc today to be told this was from 2014. I've also paid back £1000s in overpayments. I asked why I was only told about this now and apparently they're going through old debts as part of the transfer to UC. When I told them I was disputing the overpayment the response was that I should have appealed within 3 months, even though I've just found out.... 9 years later. Apparently my only option is to pay and if I don't they'll take me to court.

I feel for you @Catscatsandfourcats its so frustrating. I am going to get my MP involved I think

Oh no this sounds terrifying?? Why weren't the debt claimed at the actual time?

How can anyone work out what went on 10 year's ago?

I'm afraid I don't have any answers, but wanted to suggest anyone in this position contact Jolyon Maugham at the Good Law Project. He's a barrister who fights ridiculous situations just such as this which affect "the man in the street".

If you use it, perhaps contact him publicly on Twitter. He'll usually respond fairly promptly there, plus I don't think making the ridiculousness of this public would hurt you at all, quite the opposite in fact.

Good luck. 💐

They apparently can do what they like I'm paying back £4k from 2010 that they can't give me a breakdown for but they said if l don't pay it back they will just attach my wages🙄

Good luck, I half think they just try their luck half the time and send owing letters out to see how much they could get. When I had my DS I gave them to the penny everything I earned (part time, single parent) it wasn't hard. I still owed them money once I stopped claiming working tax. It's a joke.

Might be worth checking out his success rate first ...

If you are being chased for old debts that you were never informed of them absolutely you should fight that.

Help may be available from Citizens Advice. Or from Tax Aid, both of which deal with this sort of stuff a lot.

HMRC is entitled to chase for actual debts but they can't just make up numbers from years ago, not tell you and then take your money with no safeguards!

We used a tax specialist solicitor to deal with HMRC in similar circumstances when we couldn't get a sensible response, outlined everything to her and she sent an official letter.

Cost about £500 in 2020, appreciate that might be prohibitive.

I know this says "help with a tax problem of HMRC can't sort it out" which makes you think conflicting interests but they are a charity and will listen and do have access to different direct phone numbers at HMRC and that helped me with a different scary tax situation taxaid.org.uk/

You could also write to your MP and ask them to help you sort it out. I know there used to be a sort of special priority address/helpline for MP's queries on tax credits, but that was about 10 years ago so I don't know if there still is, but even if there isn't, this is the sort of thing MPs help their constutuents with. It doesn't matter whether you voted for them or not!

Excellent, he regularly takes on the government over policy etc. And wins.

I'm not a lawyer but doesn't the statute of limitations for debt apply?

@whatyoulookingfor

revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-to-deal-with-hmrc/dealing-with-debt/#Couples%20and%20overpayment%20recovery

This part

Couples

Couples and overpayment recovery

The law says that an overpayment debt for a couple can be collected by HMRC in full (but only once!) from either the claimant or their partner. The stated policy of HMRC where this has happened following a household breakdown is to write to both members of the former couple (making every effort to trace any former partner for whom they do not have an up-to-date address).

If the claimant believes that there should be a difference in what they and their former partner should pay, then HMRC will take into account the circumstances of both of them and may ask each of them to pay a different amount, or one of them to pay the full amount. Alternatively, they can agree between them to pay different amounts and inform HMRC of this decision.

Prior to August 2009, HMRC policy was to allow each party to repay 50% of the overpayment. However, when confirming this agreement in writing, HMRC reserved the right to return to the partner who was engaging with them for the other 50% if they could not trace the other partner.

LITRG, along with other representative bodies, expressed concern that HMRC often pursued the engaging partner with vigour whilst the other partner remained ‘untraceable’. This often meant the mother with care of the children had to repay the whole joint overpayment debt where the absent partner was difficult to trace. Since August 2009, HMRC have implemented a much fairer policy in these situations. As before, provided a person engages with HMRC, they will allow repayment of 50% of the joint debt. Provided that this 50% is paid (either by lump sum or on a payment plan) HMRC will not pursue that person for the remaining 50%. Instead they will pursue the other partner, and if they cannot collect the money will not go back to the engaging partner to collect it.

It is important to note that the law still allows HMRC to pursue either partner for the full amount of the joint debt. Also, this process is not well advertised by HMRC, so you should ensure that you ask Debt Management and Banking if you think it applies to your client.

Not for HMRC and DWP debt they can still recover without a court order.

www.stepchange.org/debt-info/can-i-write-off-debt/statute-barred-debt.aspx#:~:text=This%20applies%20to%20many%20common,personal%20loans%2C%20overdrafts%20and%20catalogues.&text=Once%20a%20debt%20is%20statute,able%20to%20make%20you%20bankrupt.

Make a spreadsheet of your payments.
I once made payments to hmrc and they "hadn't allocated properly". This went on for over a year!! I had set up a direct debit...
Luckily I had an agent!
But in the end a call with them to find where the money went is what resolved it.
Send them your figures.
All the best