PIP Appeal

[Darthwazette]

I scored 0 points in both sections following my application for PIP for poor mental health. I had a paper based assessment and have today received The DWP response to my appeal request.

They stated that due to my conditions and the associated risks they could not ask me to attend a face to face assessment. They requested evidence from my GP and therapist but did not receive it in a timely manner and therefore have done a paper based assessment with the limited information they had and granted me 0 points.

Does anyone know why they’ve done this? I would have found a face to face assessment very distressing but I’d have preferred it to being dismissed completely. The initial rejection of my application and mandatory reconsideration caused a huge set back with my mental health. I felt as though I had humiliated myself by opening up to strangers who didn’t even believe me. I was suicidal and have done a lot of work with my counsellor on it since. I’m just so upset.

From my understanding - PIP for mental health is incredibly hard to be awarded, as PIP is for self care & tends to be scored based on your physical ability to complete self care tasks.

Presumably you can walk more than 200m, prepare a meal and take your medication from a physical point of view? I totally understand that the mental toll of performing these tasks will be significant but scoring adequate points for mental health is an incredibly high bar. The only person I know who was awarded had post partum psychosis and needed almost constant supervision

@Darthwazette

I'm afraid lots of people get turned down on first application. There are groups and support services that can help you apply.

I know how hard it is to apply and describe your worst times etc.

So sorry this has happened to you.

Sorry, but this is just wrong.

I work in welfare rights and my client group is entirely people with MH issues. I do at least 2 PIP applications a month, often 4 or more, and have almost 100% success rate (and 100% success rate at appeals). Only 30% or so win at the initial application. Most have to go to appeal; only those that miss out by a narrow margin seem to succeed at the mandatory reconsideration stage. I have had more than a few clients go from 0 points to enhanced rate. The initial decisions are rubbish.

People with MH issues often need prompting and encouraging to do basic things like prepare a meal, wash and dress themselves, may overspend and need help budgetting, have panic attacks that mean they can't go out alone unaccompanied etc.

To be deemed able to carry out an activity, the applicant must be able to do it safely, repeatedly, to an acceptable standard or in a reasonable amount of time, it counts as though they can't do it. If someone is distracted by instrusive thoughts, hearing voices etc, there will be a fair few activities that they can't do safely, if they have OCD they may not be able to do them in a reasonable amount of time.

Have a look at the descriptors and points here PIP descriptors & points @Darthwazette, and see where you think you should be awarded points. Submit an appeal based around those descriptors, and stating exactly what help you need and why. Explain which of your MH conditions mean that you need that help. Submit as much medical evidence as you can lay your hands on.

PIP decisions are an utter disgrace and the cost of unnecessary appeals must be huge.

It is definitely worth appealing OP I know it is hard I been there. Mine took nearly 2 years and the court did award me it this month and I got it all backdated
I put a thread on here (in the neurodiverse part) saying if you have applied do not give up. The court were much kinder than dwp who had also scored me 0 points on everything
The court awarded me 10 just for mobility cos they actually read the application and listened to the person who was helping me (we attended a video hearing cos I could not attend court)

Thank you. I’ve now obtained copies of my full health records detailing crisis team referrals, frequent appointments, obvious poor self care, etc. Unfortunately it took several months to get these and hence I didn’t get them in time for the initial application or the reconsideration.

I think I should be eligible for basic rate care, nothing big but enough to get me a little more support.

What upset me, and what I probably wasn’t clear about is the refusal to properly assess me face to face due to “[my] symptoms and the risks associated with that”, obviously acknowledging that I need support, but then denying me anything. It just seems like such a messed up system. They won’t assess me because I’m unwell and as a result I’m not entitled to any help.

My husband has been awarded PIP for 3 years for mental health issues. He needs constant prompting to get up, wash, dress etc he also wouldn't eat properly unless I cooked for him and I handle all finances, budgeting etc he also finds it hard to interact socially with people. He is proof it can be granted for mental health issues.

Absolutely OP
I was awarded standard for both. The extra money means I can afford to get a dishwasher in the new year so no more eating for weeks off unwashed dishes (I know I live shamefully 🙁)
I am also going to get a cleaner to help me clean the house every week to start with
The things other people take for granted we do not realise we need that much help until it is laid bare like that
I broke my freezer earlier this year by accidentally leaving the door open for days. My brain does not work properly it is frustrating for me but I got no family to help me so I just deal with it best I can

My mum has autism and she got 0 on her first try, I didn't know you could appeal so I reapplied for her 6 months later and she was awarded enhanced rate on them both - sometimes I think it depends on what decision maker you get and how they feel that day.

I would appeal it if you feel you are entitled to it.

I had a letter just before Christmas saying I scored 0 points on everything and just sent off a letter for reconsideration.
I was scored 0 on everything despite the fact I have severe OCD, I self harm, I am several pounds underweight, I have to be prompted to eat/shower, wear the same dirty clothes for several days at a time & have panic attacks if DH is otherwise engaged and I have to answer the door to delivery people.
I can’t make financial decisions or understand complex written documents because my brain just shuts off and can’t take anything in. The report said I had no issues with this, despite the fact it wasn’t discussed during the phone interrogation, and the letter said I didn’t suffer any signs of anxiety or distress during assessment. I was sobbing and hyperventilating through most of the call. It’s so distressing having to go through this.

Good luck op.

The biggest issue with PIP is most people don't realise an award is based on discriptors, if you don't meet the descriptors...no award. Having a mental health condition or any condition does not automatically qualify people for PIP. My partner does get maximum PIP but then again he is a severe Schizophrenic barely living in the real world and needs 24 HR care...getting PIP for things like anxiety or depression can be difficult to meet descriptors for unless you are acutely unwell or agoraphobic. Only the descriptors matter, if you cannot do activities unrelated to the descriptor...then you will not get awarded regardless of how Ill you are. Always check to see if you are likely to be awarded before applying...there are online guides that will tell you how the descriptors work and the points awarded.

Agree with lakieLady. Also the only PIP applications that I have helped with recently that have been successful first time have been where there has been decent medical evidence to send with the form. DWP won't bother much to seek further information. I had one client awarded it mainly based on mental health as well as some physical health issues and she had letters from her CPN detailing her difficulties and a four month long stay in a Psychiatric unit this year. the CPN reports detailed all her issues well. It was awarded at enhanced rates with no problem. I've had one awarded at MR stage and client was just a couple of points short of an award for both components and with extra medical evidence sent it was awarded at MR but otherwise a lot are needing to go to appeals. I have had 2 cases recently where I've helped with the form and thought no way these people would get an award bases on the form but they have both been given awards so goodness knows what they told the assessor. One said he told the assessor about suicidal thought which he had not even mentioned to me when I helped with the form ! My advice would just be to do an MR or get help with one and get as much medical evidence as possible to send with it.

Agree with this. Sometimes there seems to be no logical explanation for the conclusion they have come to. I feel the same way about Attendance Allowance for older people although there is generally no assessment with that. I have some applicants who I just think no way are you going to be awarded anything and they get awarded higher rate and others - for example one man who could hardly breathe, on liquid morphine, close to needing 24 hour Oxygen and he was turned down. The whole system is madness. it perplexes me on a daily basis and makes me cross to the point where I'm thinking of a career change because it just seems so unjust that some get it so easily and others don't.

What upset me, and what I probably wasn’t clear about is the refusal to properly assess me face to face due to “[my] symptoms and the risks associated with that”, obviously acknowledging that I need support, but then denying me anything. It just seems like such a messed up system. They won’t assess me because I’m unwell and as a result I’m not entitled to any help.

I'd use that in your appeal, OP: they ackonwledged that your MH issues give rise to risks and support needs that are sufficiently severe to merit them denying you a F2F assessment, but failed to take those risks, that they themselves recognised, into account in reaching their decision.

I'd also add that you were disadvantaged by not having a F2F assessment as the assessor was unable to observe visual indicators of anxiety/distress/whatever applies.

Thank you for your reply. When you say use it in my appeal, how do I do that? Do I right to them before hand? I need to send my medical notes to the appeal so I could add it in a covering letter?

I felt that my initial application was reasonable. I made sure that I had referred to their descriptors for each point, etc. their response suggests they have completely over looked my application though. I’m being supported (oddly by a friend of my therapist, who had to have everything approved by her mentor as it crosses the boundaries) by an ex DWP employee who felt that I had worded things well and should have been awarded something.

Without checking the descriptors, so some of the numbers may be out (I haven't looked at them for 3 weeks), I'd say you should try and get:

Preparing food - 2 points because you need prompting
Taking nutrition - 4 - prompting
Washing/bathing - 2 - prompting
Dressing - 2 - prompting to select appropriate, ie clean, clothing
Engaging with others - 2 - need support
Budgetting - 2 - need assistance

I'd also advise you to try and get points for communicating with other people, if your panic attacks are so severe they render you unable to communicate effectively. However, you won't get points at appeal if you said you don't need help with this on the original form.

You might get the enhanced rate, with a bit of luck and a following wind!

Good luck with it.

Download the appeal form SSCS1 here:

Appeal form download

or complete the online version here:

Appeal online (you can save it and go back to it, you don't need to do it all at once).

On the section "Grounds for appeal" (section 5?), you put why you think they're wrong. If someone has had a telephone assessment, I always say that they were disadvantaged by that, because the assessor couldn't see visible signs of distress etc, it might be helpful to point that out. Then explain that the DWP recognised the severe impact that your MH issues have on you and only did a "paper based" assessment because of risk, but then contradicted themselves by failing to take into account the significant impact of your MH, which they themselves ackownledge, on your ability to carry out daily living activities.

That should cover it. Then go through each activity that you said you need help with on the application, check the descriptors and see how many points you should get, and tell them how much help you need and how many points you think you should get. If you think you could be entitled to (eg) 4 points on a descriptor, ask for them, but say that if they don't agree, they should at least give you 2 because you need the lower level of support.

That's how I do appeals, and it seems to work!

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

I have been unwell for years and retired early at 56. I probably should have applied sooner but didn't. My mobility is now so poor I can barely stand and walk a few steps. Physiotherapist told me I should be getting PIP and blue badge so can at least park closer to shop. I finally applied and got letter from my GP stating I had some MH issues. I got letter from physiotherapist about lower back pain and frozen shoulder. I was awarded points for care and mobility 9 points and 12 points but no points for anxiety which I find crippling and prevents me from going out most of time. It seems some assessor's don't like awarding points for MH issues. I can't face going through any more so will just accept award given.

Can anyone help me or advise me please, I have Rheumatoid arthritis in my ankle, which causes me serious pain to the point some days I cannot physically walk, I’m 23 years old with a 3 year old boy who has autism. Understandably day to day life/ task are extremely hard when I cannot walk. I applied for pip and was refused I believe I scored 7 points? However due to ongoing assessment and appointment for both myself and my son I never got round to appealing this. Can I re apply or still challenge this decision?

How long ago was the decision? If you've only missed the one-month deadline for submitting a mandatory reconsideration by a couple of weeks, I'd be minded, to send in a letter anyway, explaining why it's late, and with a bit of luck, they might accept it. You can't appeal to a tribunal without having a mandatory reconsideration. If you got 7 points for one component last time, you're so close I bet they'd give you the 8th point you need to get an award.

At the same time, I'd start a new claim. If you get a good result from the mandatory reconsideration, you can withdraw the new claim, if you don't, you've already started the process afresh. And new claims are being processed more quickly now than they were a couple of months ago.

Make sure you base your description of your difficulties around the descriptors I linked to upthread, and bear in mind the 4 tests: if you can't do it

1. repeatedly
2. safely
3. to an acceptable standard, and
4. in a reasonable timescale

then for PIP purposes, you can't do it. For example, if your ankle gives way when standing, causing you to fall, you might not be able to cook safely.

There's loads of help online. I'm not on FB, but I believe there's some good stuff on there about PIP.