Second relationships, no joint dc - how do you deal with money?

[Overseaunderstone]

Do you run joint finances, or do you keep things separate?

We fell into living together because Covid, so didn't have these sort of discussions beforehand. No DC at home, similar annual salary but different financial positions (one of us has mortgage / no savings, other owns house outright, does have savings). I'd be interested to know how others manage things.

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Separate, completely.
Actually married and planned it rather than fell into it.
The cost we jointly share is food shopping - which is just whoever happens to shop, pays. Probably about 50/50.
One off costs like holidays we work out at the time.

Presumably you live in the house that is owned outright and the other house is rented out so rent covers mortgage?

We do live in the house owned outright, but unhelpfully the other house has minimal equity, & not in a good area for renting. A combination of that plus maintenance needed means on a monthly basis there's a shortfall of around £250 at current interest rates.

Separate, could you sell one house and buy together on a percentage ownership reflective on what each contributed?

Hmmmm that's hard, is the person who's house being lived in looking for rent and/or the person who's paying mortgage looking for contribution towards it?
General living costs should be split 50/50.

I guess I was trying to understand what others did in later relationships more generally.

At the moment, neither of us is asking for anything. I'm the one with more assets / in a better financial position, & I feel bad about the fact that DP ends up with very little disposable income that he can just access IYKWIM.

Basically ex-H & I married young & bought a house early, so before price rises, plus I've always worked, & family support meant not much childcare spend. DP & his ex bought in the pre-crash boom, his ex didn't work until dc in their late teens (they split a long time ago, so DP no say in this choice!), & he's now supporting 2 dc at uni (ex no money due to above...) as well as the mortgage.

We live in my house, I've continued to pay bills (last dc had only recently left home in 2020, so used to them being based on 2 adults anyway). We pay for other stuff ad hoc, basically who-ever goes & does the shopping.

Things are complicated by the fact that while 90% of the differences are due to circumstances, realistically I am definitely the one who is better with money. DP isn't a big spender at all, but he's not great at paying attention to direct debits, he tends to put his head in the sand around things like potential mortgage rate increases & the need to sort out a fixed deal, that sort of thing. Eg. we had a recent conversation about pensions, and he doesn't have any idea about the total pot he has (more than one pension from different jobs).

If his rented out mortgaged place leaves him £250 down, then it still sounds like he’s better off than if he wasn’t living with you for what sounds like free. Presumably, he’d then be paying out what - £650 in mortgage? Plus bills, council tax alone over £100.

I don’t think that one person has to just subside a “later in life” partner to the tune of equalising money. It’s just not the same as when someone has made joint life decisions impacting income.

My “rules” if you like:

• I shouldn’t make him financially worse off on basic discretionary spends being with me
• I shouldn’t pressure him to spend more than he wants to / can afford
• I shouldn’t live a lifestyle alongside him that he can’t partake in

The situation for us, is that I still have more disposable income - but he lives in my house completely free. So actually he does “cost” me money - but not so much that he’s getting half of it. But though he has less than me, he’s much better off than before he met me. We don’t have a day to day disparity because I put a lot of my income into my pension. That’s something that he’ll benefit from if we stay together. He’s actually got a paid off house of his own - so asset wise we’re more evenly matched than we are income. But living for free with me lets him give his son a hand with cheap housing.

So all in all, I don’t ever resent that he’s getting lots of my money, because I keep the cash… I just turn down making money from him contributing. I do work harder than him - it’s not just about society valuing our relative jobs, I have moved around more, studied longer, worked long hours, have much more responsibility and stress. I feel I earn my money and don’t want to give it away - even to a man I love! But at the same time, he’s probably £500 a month better off AND is given his son a start. He’s on NMW so that £500 post tax is great! So he’s doing well out of the situation - not that he thinks of it in trying to do well out of me!!

The most important thing is that we had really open discussions about this all way and we’re both happy.

Not saying this is the only way to do it - I’ve had someone on MN call him a cocklodger before 😀 and I always expect someone to tell me I’m financially abusive because we’re married without one pot. But it works for us and I thought it might interest you.

Bottom line, the “poorer” partner hasn’t gained 50/50, but they are significantly better off. The better off partner hasn’t lost much of their own cash - just the potential cash they could have made from a contribution.

Thank-you for sharing that Testina, it's really helpful. It sounds like we're in a similar situation overall. I think your rules are good ones, and I think we are going along OK from that PoV. DP & I have very similar approaches on lifestyle, which makes it work really fine on a day to day basis.

"I’ve had someone on MN call him a cocklodger before 😀 and I always expect someone to tell me I’m financially abusive because we’re married without one pot."
This made me laugh, I read these sort of threads and I'm sure that's partly what makes me twitchy & sure what ever I'm doing is wrong

Interesting thread and relevant! @Testina, did you openly discuss all this with your DP or did it just emerge? I'm 47, been with DP 3 years, we live 2 hours apart, both have teenagers, so we will prob live together in e.g. 4-5 years. I have a house and assets, he has very little and earns much less than me. I would like to get married but concerned about inheritance etc. In a lot of the threads here about second marriages there seems to be a lot of consensus that marriage means sharing all finances full stop and you're somehow unloving if you don't want to merge. Yet I also feel I would rather keep things separate with a fair arrangement. And I also have the same feeling that it's not the same with a later life partner, as e.g. with my marriage of 20 years to ex-DH, where you're building a family life basically to the later benefit of your mutual kids. E.g. I would be fine with DP living with me and saving on rent, therefore being able to help his son more, I would expect him to pay a third bills and everything else in our daily lives (as I earn 2x more), and if I died first I would want him to have the right to live in our home and to be provided for, BUT the main assets to then go to my kids (not his son), after his death. How did you weigh up the decision to marry? I'm so interested in the experience of those with second relationships because I'm sure it's a lot of us!!

I think our situation will be very similar to yours Testina. I like your solution of 'I don't have to divvy up everything I have 50/50 and make myself a lot poorer' but rather 'he is benefiting quite a bit and I am not majorly losing out'

@choixduroi it was very much an open discussion! It wasn’t a negotiation - I set out my views and said, are you happy with that? Honestly, I wouldn’t have compromised and my husband knows that - but I believe I know him well enough to know he didn’t feel bullied into it. He’s much better off financially with me. We’ve always been very open about money.

I explained above that he actually owns a house outright - insurance paid it off when his wife died. As he let his adult son live there for free he gained no money from it as income, but the asset is there. Honestly, without that asset I simply would not have married him. I’ve been through one divorce, I believe it can happen to anyone. I wouldn’t have exposed myself to that financial loss. He knows this. He laughs at how practical I am, but in a nice way 😉 I actually requested a pre and/or post nup which was fine by him, though we never got round to it.

The key for us is openness.

Is there a particular reason you want to get married @choixduroi ? Never say never, but I feel like 'he is benefiting quite a bit and I am not majorly losing out' works fine for us, and marriage & all that entails would just complicate matters, especially as we both have DC from our previous marriages.

I'd do something completely different . I'd use my assets to get my children on the property ladder or give them their inheritance and the reduction in asset puts you both on more of an equal footing . I think it's a minefield with such differences in finances and will get very complicated down the line if anything happens to you .

@Testina have you arranged about inheritance, etc. For example the asset he has, I presume will go to his son. I like your point about simply discussing it very openly and also that it is ok not to split everything 50/50 coming into a second relationship. We only recently broached the issue of how much the other respectively earns. Think it will be a good exercise in communication.

@Overseaunderstone I guess it's mainly sentimental, having had one marriage which didn't work in the end (but did for a long time) I am very romantic and want to be married again, have that feeling of being really official, belonging together in the eyes of the world etc. HOWEVER of course the sadness of the breakup and divorce has coloured this a lot and I am increasingly less keen on the idea. Also I would get married without living together, as that will be a way down the line. The irony is that if my DP was significantly better off, I would be definitely decided on marriage (as long as he was up for it obvs), so it clearly isn't of as much 'love' based importance to me as I think it is. I also hear you on it being difficult being the one who is better with money - it's wild how attitudes and behaviours around money can differ, and that was one area that was never an issue with ex DH. I honestly think the money disparity issue is the main issue I need to sort in the relationship with DP I would feel fine getting married with a clear prenup with regard to inheritance and some kind of fair agreement about split, but like Testina I don't think that getting married means he should get half of my assets.

@hattie43 I do want to help my kids out and that they get my main inheritance one day but I do need to pay my own mortgage and live a reasonable life myself so I wouldn't start gifting them assets (apart from that they're 14 and 16 😂).

@choixduroi this will put me to him if he reads this 🤣
So… my will, everything goes to my kids except for my work pension spousal payment which can only go to a spouse. Lucky him! There is a section in my will that gives him the right to remain in my house for 6 months before my kids can sell it out from under him 🤣 He’s read my will. My kids (teens) have seen it too. They was updated a month before we got married, ready to be quickly re-signed and witnessed 2 weeks after we got married, as marriage voids a will.

His will should leave everything to his son, but the muppet hasn’t done it yet. Hasn’t got round to it post marriage. He trusts me. He’s actually right he can trust me, but I do remind him regularly not to. Or that we could die together and my kids might not be as trustworthy 🤣 Well - I’m sure they are! But I do like admin to be sorted.

He’ll do quite well from my spousal pension benefit if it ever comes to that, but every other penny goes to my kids, who are absolute my priority over him. As are his over me. We are very very open about this.

Be careful here those who think not being married and having a will leaving everything to their children.Even if a will is valid, certain relatives and dependants can challenge the division of the estate under the will (or the rules of intestacy), by claiming under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 (the 1975 Act) that it does not make ‘reasonable financial provision’ for them.
The categories of those who can make a claim are:

• any person cohabitating with the deceased as ‘husband and wife’ for at least two years immediately prior to the deceased's death

Keep the cost of your houses separate
split any joint cost like utilities and food

We also moved in together due to covid circumstances. He pays the rent and bills like he did before he met me and I pay for food, petrol,decorating, the cleaner and holidays.

I'm defo better off than him as I earn more and have rental income from my house but he feels that he is better off than he was and so it works for us.