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Original poster

How to protect myself without looking like a d*ck?

39 replies

namechange10110 · 28/10/2022 16:10

I've name changed as people who know me might recognise my situation.

DF passed away recently. Everything in the will is left to me and my sister with 50/50 split. We are amicable and no reason to think things will turn sour.

How ever, my sister never moved out of the family home so was living with DF at the time of his passing along with my teenage niece. There was some cash in the will that we have split 50/50. But with the house, she can't afford a mortgage to buy me out but has said she will sell the house in around 3 years when DN goes to university. I have no reason to believe this won't happen. But, I want to protect myself in case it doesn't. I don't want to cause arguments by suggesting this so how can I go about it? What can I do? The deeds of the house will be put into both our names once we're through probate. Grateful for any advice.

OP posts:
ICanHideButICantRun · 28/10/2022 16:12

I'm really sorry you lost your dad. Flowers

You really do need to get a legal document drawn up. What if something happened to either of you in the next three years?

Will she be able to buy somewhere to live then?

bonzaitree · 28/10/2022 16:12

Ask your solicitor - I'm sure she will advise what equity you have in the house.

If your sister doesn't sell in three years as promised you can issue court proceedings to force a sale.

Princessglittery · 28/10/2022 16:35

How do you plan to own the house, joint tenants or tenants in common? You need legal advice on the options, I would suggest tenants in common otherwise your DSis automatically inherits the house if you die.

I agree with pp you can enter into a legal agreement. You can sell it to your DSis that it is usual to have a deed of trust as TiC. Plus you also need clauses to formalise who is paying bills, responsible for maintenance etc. over the next 3 years etc.

As well as clauses around selling in 3 years, you also need clauses to future proof for significant changes in personal circumstances, housing market crashing etc.

You also need to update your will as it should give DSis the right to remain for 3 years, not a life interest but limited period interest - if there is such a thing.

There are sometimes in life where a legal agreement between family members is a very sensible and pragmatic option. This is one of those situations where working through and documenting decisions now can mean you retain a good relationship with your DSis.

doubleshotcappuccino · 28/10/2022 16:36

You can draw up an MOU ( memorandum of understanding) which legally sets out and binds intentions

TootMootZoot · 28/10/2022 16:44

So sorry for your loss.

You need to try and think of every eventuality. It's so much easier to have worked things out in advance rather than waiting until it's too late.

Will your sister pay rent?
What about bills?
What about insurance?
What about any major repairs? If the boiler goes who is going to pay? Etc etc
What happens if she gets a boyfriend?
What happens if she starts renting rooms?
What if she becomes Ill and has to quit her job or go on benefits?
What if she gets an inheritance from elsewhere or what if she wins the pools?
What happens if the niece decides to go to a local university or decides not to go?

My kids still came home for their long holidays when they were at Uni? Is you sister going to be able to find somewhere she can live in three years time?
Is she eligible for a mortgage now?

Can she afford anything now? If I were you I'd want to get it settled now then you don't all have to worry about what might happen in the future.!

TBH this has got disaster written all over it 🫤

I think it would be well worth getting proper legal advice and trying to work everything out now.

TootMootZoot · 28/10/2022 16:45

Also, might their be some tax implications of not selling it immediately? (I've no idea!)

Princessglittery · 28/10/2022 16:52

TootMootZoot · 28/10/2022 16:45

Also, might their be some tax implications of not selling it immediately? (I've no idea!)

Capital Gains Tax is a distinct possibility

Original poster
namechange10110 · 28/10/2022 17:20

Thank you everyone, lots of things I hadn't considered. She isn't paying rent but is paying all the bills. It is a concern that I could end up liable for repairs or something.
I don't know what we'll be, I just know we would both be on the deeds, I assume we need to be whatever protects both of us. Definitely need to get some legal advice. We are sorting probate ourselves so I will discuss with her and speak to a solicitor.

OP posts:
custardbear · 28/10/2022 17:29

Definitely get something drawn up by the solicitor. I'd consider her paying you half a rental cost too for those 3 years which is split out at point of sale, otherwise she's getting a free home. Even if it's only say 2.5k per year for example. I'd certainly ensure there's buildings insurance too, and I'd pay half toward it too

Princessglittery · 28/10/2022 18:18

You definitely need legal advice. Hopefully we have given you a starter list of questions to help the conversation and identify the decisions you both need to make.

You will each need your own legal advice to make sure any agreement is fair to both parties.

Original poster
namechange10110 · 28/10/2022 18:31

Well I've had the conversation with her. Luckily she was ok, once I explained how DN wouldn't be protected if anything were to happen to her, she saw that it is something that we need.
Why do we need separate advice? I assumed we could get something drawn up that outlines how we are both protected? Is this not the case?
Sorry, I'm a complete novice with all this sort of stuff.

OP posts:
Original poster
namechange10110 · 28/10/2022 18:32

custardbear · 28/10/2022 17:29

Definitely get something drawn up by the solicitor. I'd consider her paying you half a rental cost too for those 3 years which is split out at point of sale, otherwise she's getting a free home. Even if it's only say 2.5k per year for example. I'd certainly ensure there's buildings insurance too, and I'd pay half toward it too

I can see the benefit of this but she is paying all the bills, we've moved them all into her name and I'm happy with that arrangement.

OP posts:
Original poster
namechange10110 · 28/10/2022 18:33

Does the free half hour with a solicitor actually exist or is it a Mumsnet myth?!

OP posts:
RandomMess · 28/10/2022 18:38

I would encourage her to think about selling up sooner to find somewhere cheaper to run etc. I don't mean to free up your 50% but so she isn't doing it in a rush when she is feeling an empty nest.

She can take her time to think about her needs and wants and wait for the right type of property to come up.

Princessglittery · 28/10/2022 18:41

The reason you both need separate legal advice is because you are two parties to the same agreement and will have different vested interests which may conflict.

Princessglittery · 28/10/2022 18:43

I agree with @custardbear you should pay 50% of the building insurance. You own 50% of the building the insurance is protecting.

Tronkmanton · 28/10/2022 19:01

Definitely get legal advice. I was in a similar situation but different circumstances to you and my DB wanted us to agree via a Word document he had drawn up himself….I’m forever grateful that I sought my own legal advice and have a proper legal claim on the property in question and can start legal proceedings if he doesn’t do as agreed. This was five years ago, but he recently divorced his wife which has made his circumstances very different to what they were when we agreed what to do….a word document would not have cut it!!! Think of it as protecting your children’s /niece’s inheritance rather than your own.

MovingOnUpp · 29/10/2022 09:10

I think your DS will string it out, my DC came home for 5 months a year when they were at uni.

Original poster
namechange10110 · 01/11/2022 15:48

So, I've had sight of the will today. It's all in legal speak but does this suggest my sister has to do something with the house within 1 year of death? My sister is named as the grantee, I've just left that bit out to not be identifying.

How to protect myself without looking like a d*ck?
OP posts:
Princessglittery · 01/11/2022 17:11

IANAL but that reads to me like your DSis has 12 months to buy the house from the estate at market value or it is to be sold.

The will is specific about the process and the options for your DSis and the Trustees role.

The will does not appear to allow for a longer period. So the 3 years is not an option under the will. You would need to agree to a Deed of Variation to allow this, so a legal agreement would have to be entered into - do not do this without legal advice.

Who is/are the Trustee(s) (executor)? They have a key role in ensuring the will is followed. They will need legal advice as they could be liable if they don’t follow the provisions in the will.

You definitely need legal advice, yes it will cost but it is important to get this right.

Original poster
namechange10110 · 01/11/2022 17:16

My DH and my uncle are the executors! So would the issue only be if one of us had an issue with it? If we could come to a mutual agreement would that be acceptable? My DH is worried about getting into trouble if he doesn't do it right.
And thank you, that is how I interpreted it too.

OP posts:
Princessglittery · 01/11/2022 18:14

As executors your DH and Uncle need to get legal advice. The legal advice should be paid from the estate. This can include the pros and cons of doing a DoV to allow DSis to stay in the house for 3 years. This must include advice on CGT.

All beneficiaries impacted by a DoV need to agree. So only you need to agree as it is your inheritance that is being delayed by more than the 12 months.

I cannot stress enough the need for legal advice and to consider making the house ownership Tenants in Common and for you to have a will stating what happens to your share. Plus you must have a deed of trust covering all the points I raised in my previous post along with others from the solicitor. Be clear where there are extra costs these are either paid from the estate or by your sister and document this.

The good thing is as an executor your DH can insist on this to protect him and your Uncle.

Personally, no matter how much I thought my sister wouldn’t try to take advantage, I would consider stating the financial risks are to high for the executors and so they must follow the will.

Original poster
namechange10110 · 01/11/2022 18:30

Thank you for your detailed reply. I will find a solicitor tomorrow. I am happy to extend the time period to 3 years but I want this in writing. My DH is concerned he will be in trouble if the will isn't followed.

OP posts:
Princessglittery · 01/11/2022 19:11

Hope it goes well.

Original poster
namechange10110 · 02/11/2022 19:30

Had an initial chat with a solicitor today. Feel much happier now that we have started that.

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