NI contributions 38 years ago

[Deedee248]

My DH has recently been looking ahead to his pension benefits etc and has discovered that according to HMRC, he (allegedly) made no NI contributions for the years 1984-5, 1985-6 and 1986-7. The fact is that he was employed full time in the same (fairly low-paid) job from 1983 to 1991. He paid NI contributions for 1983-4, and from 1987 onwards, so we cannot understand why he would not have paid any for the three years mentioned above. HMRC have written to him just saying they have no record of him having paid contributions and unless he can provide evidence that he DID pay, ie a P60, then those years will not count as qualifying years.

This is plainly ridiculous. Nobody keeps a P60 for 38 years! I have some financial paperwork going back to the late nineties, but bearing in mind that this is all pre-digital times, how on earth are we supposed to be able to prove this?

I would be very grateful if anyone has any advice on this, or has experienced a similar situation please.

Was he maybe actually not earning enough to trigger NI contributions in those years? The threshold may have gone up to pull him out of paying?

(Possibly unhelpful to say I have P60s going back to 1985.)

The key is whether or not it impacts his state pension entitlement. It is very unlikely anyone else has records from the 1980s.

The trouble is most people at the start of their working life don’t realise the importance of NI records. I advised a friend when their employer shut down and he realised his NI record was incomplete. He had P60s and,even though his employer failed to pay HMRC the NI they deducted, he was given full credit by HMRC as he could prove he had paid NI.

To be fair, in the 1980s it wasn’t as easy to check your NI record as it is now. This Is why it was important to keep P60s (I have all of mine from 1980).

Ni conts were recorded on cardboard cards which were transferred to computers in the late eighties. The cards were binned as cost too much to store them just in case so up to you to prove he paid them however as has already been mentioned do these years actually make any difference?

www.ft.com/content/e0a525c4-7902-4ebd-8524-780025c7e6d7

www.ft.com/content/ce7107e4-efc4-4306-9197-3308af19b889

The two articles above (which I was able to read without a subscription) suggest this is not an isolated issue.

I would suggest that you highlight these to HMRC and ask them to check their records. Ask if you have any right of appeal against their decision not to allow credit for those years. And contact your MP.

I've also got a full set of P60s from when I first starting working in 1981. It's only 41 sheets of paper (one per year), so takes up virtually no storage. It's one of the items on the list I give to my clients of things never to throw away!

Another one here who has every P60 I've been issued with, going back to the early 1990s.

But OP, does it matter that these years might be missing?

You need 35 years of contributions to get a state pension and you have nearly 50 years from age 17 to 67 in which to make them, so can afford to lose a few without it affecting your state pension, even allowing for studying and periods out of work.

I started work in 1983 and stopped in 1999 but continued to have my NI credited due to receiving either Child Benefit or Carers Allowance. That stopped in 2017 and I'm 58 and only 3 years short on NI Contributions for a full pension.
Are you sure the missing Contributions will actually make a difference to your DH. You don't get any extra pension if you pay more than 35 years' worth of NI.

It is only 35 years if you start contributing now. Those who are older have to pay more years, and each person can find this out on the Gov.U.K. Website.

it is rubbish for older people and I would think the OPs husband is in this group who have to pay more years.

and for information I have all my P60s going back to the late 80s.
never throw a P60:away

State pension entitlement is not straightforward for anyone who was working prior to April 2016 and paid contracted out NI contributions.

The 35 years relates to contracted in contributions prior to 2016 and NI post April 2016.

It is reasonable for the OPs DH to need the missing years from the 1980s to qualify for the full new state pension.

If in a low paid salary he may of not paid NI as only pay after earnings reach a certain level.

And I agree with you most people only keep 7 years of records as the Revenue requires so why would you have P60s from that long ago?

Hope you can get this sorted OP

I have 12 years missing due to living overseas.

Pretty sure my contributions were contracted out as I worked in a business with a good non contributory final salary pension scheme - and I'm still only 3 years short of a full pension in spite of having made no contributions since 2017 and being 9 years from state retirement age.

Doesn't help him but might help someone else - you never throw away a payslip or a P60. Never. I've got records from the start of my working life over 20 years ago and I needed them when NHS Pensions lost a load of info on me.

I have my P60's since 1977 the year I started work.
It actually says on it 'Please do not destroy'

I'm not sure what you can do to evidence it now - surely HMRC could cross check with his tax contributions for that year as they would show he was earning and paying PAYE and the logical assumption would be that if he was paying tax, he'd be paying NI or at least this would indicate whether his earning were enough to pay. I know on some of my earliest pay years, it tells me on my record whether the amount was from pay or credits. I have some years which are a mixture presumably due to low earnings or still being at school.

I have worked with no years missed since 1982/3 and yet I still have two years more to contribute before I qualify for full state pension (and 11 years still to wait before it's paid) due to some years when I was contracted out. So it's perfectly possible that OPs DH needs those years if he is planning to retire from work before 67.

It is possible to pay to make up missing years (i think it's about £800-1000?) but i guess i'd be a bit miffed doing that if knew it was an error on someone else's part.

I have all mine from 1983 when Iwas 16

@bigbluebus So you know the impact on your state pension and can choose to pay voluntary contributions for 3 years to get a full pension.

Many others find out too late as they go, I’ve worked 35 year+ so I will get a full pension when that is not the case.

Yes, I have 40 years confirmed contributions and I still need 2 more in the next 11 years to get a full pension.

@PrincessPrincessglittery Yes I spoke to the pension service who told me I could make up the missing years any time up to 6 months before I turn 67.

Well, this thread clearly shows a need to keep them, doesn't it!

Check the government gateway website, it will tell you how many qualifying years you have built up.

Oh bugger. I had a massive clear out a couple of weeks ago, found all my payslips from the late 90s onwards, thought to myself there is no way I need any of them and chucked the lot.

Arse.

I am old enough to have been working back then and NI numbers were handwritten on payslips and forms - our payroll dept person had writing which made it hard to differentiate between zeros and sixes. My NI contributions had been going to the wrong place for about a year before anyone noticed. Luckily it was noticed. Could something like this have happened?

@onemouseplace check your NI and state pension records.
www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record
www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

If he was low paid, isn't it most likely the threshold increased and he didn't pay any in those years?